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General => Star Wars Movies & TV shows => Topic started by: Darth Vicious on January 23, 2017, 10:28:56 PM

Title: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Darth Vicious on January 23, 2017, 10:28:56 PM
(http://www.gamedots.mx/media/gd/the_last_jedi.jpg)

It's official! Star Wars Episode VIII is titled "The Last Jedi".

I love the title, even if I won't be able to refer to Return of the Jedi as 'Jedi' quickly any more.

Bring on December!!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on January 23, 2017, 11:37:38 PM
Very exciting! Now, is "Jedi" singular or plural???!!!???
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on January 24, 2017, 02:50:23 AM
Singular. The french version of the title apparently used the singular form of Jedi... (which makes sense, Rey is not yet a Jedi and Luke's the only one supposedly left after the massacre).

I do wish studios would STOP using "The Last XXX" though, it's a lazy lazy way to name a movie. Just think of how many "The Last (whatever)" titles you've heard of over time e.g. The Last Samurai, The Last Ship, The Last of the Mohicans, The Last Assassin, The Last Man on Earth, The Last of Us, The Last Unicorn, The Last Starfighter, The Last Emperor, The Last Airbender, The Last Action Hero...

It just doesn't have any weight to it any more after so much overuse.

I think SlothFromHoth over at JTA had the best response to the ST era titles:

Quote
Episode 8: The Last Jedi
Episode 9: There are more Jedi now
Episode 10: Wait, they all died again.
Episode 11: Hey wait a minute, I see some more Jedi
Episode 12: Nope never mind, they're dead again.
Episode 13: The Force Awakens Again
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: fishfan on January 24, 2017, 07:26:31 AM
I'm kind of disappointed with this title.  I would have expected Jedi or Sith to appear in the final (episode 9) title to keep with the continuity of the previous films.  Without knowing what the film is about, something like "The First Order Rises" or something else ominous would have made sense for the second in a trilogy of SW films.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 24, 2017, 08:52:10 AM
I have some theories about the meaning of the title.

The most extreme is that we find out Kylo has a plan to eliminate any sort of strong Force users from the galaxy...the Jedi, the Sith and eventually himself included. He's playing the long game, wants to get close to Snoke and be able to take him down (even going so far as to mask his deceit by killing his own father) and he legitimately find Luke and kill him too because he wants to finish what Anakin/Vader started which was to end it all...both Jedi and Sith and he probably believes the Skywalker blood line is a big part of the problem. That's one theory I entertain...

The most banal theory is that Luke is claiming to be the last Jedi because he can't seem to get it right, thinks that he is doomed to fail again and again and refuses to train anymore Jedi such that he will be the last Jedi and die with that line...perhaps until convinced by Rey. So he just needs "hope" again. Typical but possible.

The in-between theory might be that Luke doesn't get to train or completely train Rey before dying so "technically" there are no more Jedi and it looks hopeless...but Rey will still find some way of basically becoming something like a Jedi by the end of the 3rd film anyway (and realize it has more to do with intent and spirit than it does dogma and doctrine) and save the day.

I also think perhaps Disney knows they can't keep milking the entire Jedi vs. Dark siders thing without it getting pretty repetitive so perhaps they want to take the franchise down a different road for a time and have the Jedi order revived several films on from now so that not every film has a villain obsessed with finding the Jedi and destroying them all, once and for all...mwahahahahaha!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: JediPatrick on January 24, 2017, 11:36:10 AM
This is a great title. Like all titles of the Star Wars episodes so far. I like it. And it gives some hints about the storyline without sharing too much. The Last Jedi is Luke. In my mind there's no question about it. He was the Last Jedi in ROTJ, he again became the last one in E7 and still will be in E8. Will he die? Maybe. Maybe not. The title does not talk about the destiny of the Last Jedi, nor does it tells how fate will be decided. It simply tells that this character, "The Last Jedi", will have a prominent role in this new chapter. That he will be the center of interest. And this is what we were expecting. This is what JJA told us when he first embarked in this new saga, telling what happened to Luke, what he has become, what he has in mind and how things changed for him past the events of ROTJ.

So I like the title. Despite what some may think, that it'snot original enough, that they could have find something better, that it was an easy poorly imaginative shot, I like it.

Yet, I've seen so many critics and harsh comments on this title on various websites (no here), Facebook and Instagram that it almost ruins the moment and the fun. And these comments goes on about E7, Disney, the SW universe being ruined anyway so they can ruin it furthermore with a poor title. How can people call themselves as hardcore SW fans if the only movies they like date back more than 40 years ago? When the only movie they like was the 1977 SW movie, and maybe also ESB in 1980? There's been so much stuff released since then. We're at the 8th official movie installment. That's more than any franchise have produced so far, except James Bond I think. Only liking the original SW movie, or maybe only also ESB and perhaps ROTJ (so basically only the OT but minus the Ewoks of course) makes it for not more than 30% of all the big screen material released. So when people say they are SW fans but bitch about the prequels, E7 and Rogue One, I don't get it...

I'm at the same point as a year ago, after viewing E7 and reading so much negativity everywhere. So tired of complaints and critics made by fans over SW. Honestly, fans are supposed to be the among the people that have fun watching these movies, but it seems they are the most overly-critical persons that watch these movies. In fact, I've discussed SW with many people in the past few years and the only persons that complain about SW are either those who view SW as a simple merchandising scheme (I can certainly appreciate their arguments and views), or the fans themselves. Most people I talk with actually that kinda like and enjoy the Star Wars are non-collectors and non-SW fans. These people view this SW phenomenon for what it is: a series of movies that are meant for entertainment. Not with a collector point of view, nor as an overly-critical audience. They just enjoyed these movies like they would with any scifi movie. But fans seem to have forgotten this. It's sad. Really...  :-\

Anyway... sorry for digressing. My state of mind is maybe not in top shape. I really like the title they gave E8. It conveys so much. I'm just eager to watch the new fans (like my kids) discover Luke Skywalker, the hero the vintage-era SW fans like myself had in their childhood. And I can't wait to see what old-Luke has become. It's certainly a thrill to live to see our childhood heroes finally grow up and gain a little more substance than what we were given back then... :)
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 24, 2017, 12:08:48 PM
Yeah, I'm totally good with the title. I don't think there is any reason to complain. I mean it's not like its called "SW 8 The Muppets Take Coruscant!" It's a title that indicates something about the film while not giving it away. I'm sure if in 1980 the Empire Strikes Back! had been a flop people would have pointed to the title and said, yeah with a title like that what could you expect! But see? The title DID NOT make or break that film. The film itself did...and it MADE it and now ESB sounds like a fantastic title! Personally I wasn't crazy about Ep 1 or 2's titles but I did not think it was necessarily any indication of what to expect from the film (I read it as me perhaps being jaded and older now and not as ready to accept the slightly hokey/hommage type titles Lucas was choosing)...sure now in retrospect it feels like all a part of what I don't like. But it isn't actually the title...I had high hopes that AOTC would get it right! Now that title fills me with loathing...but again it's because of my loathing of the film itself! If it had suited my tastes? I'd probably love the title now. I just don't think getting worked up about a title unless it is completely OFF BASE makes any sense at this point. And how can we suggest a better title really when we don't know what the film is about!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: JediPatrick on January 24, 2017, 03:49:13 PM
I just don't think getting worked up about a title unless it is completely OFF BASE makes any sense at this point. And how can we suggest a better title really when we don't know what the film is about!

Yep, agreed. It's like some people plainly forget that they are not producing nor directing these movies. They have no competencies whatsoever in film making and yet some are overly critical about all these movies. I mean, if I start arguing about a movie title and let it destroy my appetite and pleasure to see new SW movies that are offered to me year after year, then maybe I should follow the wise words Obi-Wan kindly "suggested" to one drug-dealing looser on Coruscant: "I want to go home and rethink my life". LOL :P
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 24, 2017, 06:19:29 PM
My initial response upon hearing it was actually more along the lines of "Finally we get the "Last Jedi" film!" Sort of felt like a title that was already out there waiting to be attached to a SW film that involved the Skywalkers...it just suits the franchise IMO. I mean "Return of the Jedi" is pretty much just as "on the nose" as this one seems.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Darth Vicious on January 24, 2017, 09:24:03 PM
I remember people being perplexed because "The Empire Strikes Back" wasn't called "Star Wars II", BEFORE Star Wars got relabelled as 'Episode IV: A New Hope'.

Folks didn't care for the titles The Phantom Menace or Attack of The Clones before even seeing them. And yes, I realize that can be opened to argument for those that look less favourably at the prequels. Save it.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on January 31, 2017, 04:55:23 AM

Yep, agreed. It's like some people plainly forget that they are not producing nor directing these movies. They have no competencies whatsoever in film making and yet some are overly critical about all these movies. I mean, if I start arguing about a movie title and let it destroy my appetite and pleasure to see new SW movies that are offered to me year after year, then maybe I should follow the wise words Obi-Wan kindly "suggested" to one drug-dealing looser on Coruscant: "I want to go home and rethink my life". LOL :P

Okay I'm going to take issue with the above because I feel that this is not a correct viewpoint to take on those people who are critical (overly critical) about SW or any other film property. It should never matter whether the person being critical of a film is a producer or director or even have a background in filmmaking (although that partly depends on WHAT they are criticizing; if it's a technical issue related to the film they should have a certain technical background to know what they are talking about e.g. choice of film stock, a particular use of CGI, musical composition, etc).

What I find is that most of the time, they are being critical of the story, or yes, maybe the choice of a title (The Last Jedi still seems like a lazy choice to me btw :) ) or perhaps the choice of music used, but we're talking about a subjective aspect of the film that doesn't require any "competencies" per se.  There is no singular "right" opinion; I personally think The Force Awakens is the 2nd-worst film in the franchise and it is the only film out of all the SW films that I've grown to genuinely hate, but I don't crank on those who sing its praises and defend it almost over-zealously to the point of blind faith. They are entitled to their opinion regardless of whether they are writers or construction workers or bank tellers and entitled to advocate for as long as they wish (assuming that they exercise the courtesy to let others have their own contrarian views too).

It goes both ways: if someone goes all-negative on a film, they will draw out those who are super-positive on the same film and don't want to hear negativity about something they enjoyed. That only makes those critical about it defend their position (at which point they may be accused of being overly negative but IMO they are simply reiterating their POV) and then other fans get drawn in to defend it more, and so on and so on.  There are definitely fans on both sides of the fence who let themselves get too wrapped up in the arguing (and to be sure, there's no convincing the other side that they are wrong no matter how long it rages) but BOTH critics and defenders are likely to be lacking in those so-called competencies to prove why their criticisms or defences are the definitive correct viewpoint.  It shouldn't be used as a mark against them.

Whether people realize it or not, we treat SW like a religion moreso than a simple piece of ongoing entertainment. It has a mythology, it has Biblical-level storytelling and moral lessons to teach, religious icons to acquire and treasure (action figures), it has supernatural qualities and mysticism, great heroes and villains, etc.  With real religions, we see scholars argue and criticize and even erupt into real violence all the time, and with SW it really isn't any different - it is as deep a part of our culture as any religion is and prone to the same degree of religious in-fighting as to what is the "right" way to do something.  There are those EU fans who refuse to accept TFA as canon and still want a continuation of the old EU, is that any different from the divide between say the Shiites and the Sunnis (other than the fact that so far, neither EU groups are ready to kill each other over it. Yet! :) )


Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 31, 2017, 09:49:27 AM
Good points! Yeah, I've never bought the "you're not a film maker so why do you get to criticize?" argument either. First, some could just plain have a good idea that may actually be better than someone else just on instinct! The whole point of making works for an audience is to see if you convince them. If they could not be judgmental or critical then everything should just be "good" to them or go over their heads. We expect people to like/dislike something and have an opinion on it. They are free to factor in how it was made if they want. It need not change their opinion of whether it is good or not. They can appreciate the work that went into it. They can wonder if enough work went into it. They can even wonder if the right people were involved and they can even feel like an opportunity was squandered, mishandled or failed even with the best intentions...like the PT for me. I think disrespectful, loud-mouths have helped make it hard to stomach criticism. But this is an internet thing...it has given quite the platform to a lot of people with anti-social opinions and views who want to be heard, who want to inflate their sense of self. I honestly believe they are the minority but they have a drive to be out there so they seem to omni-present...and it can lead to more dangerous consequences than crapping on someone else's entertainment! Ladies and Gentlemen...I give you the Ultra-Right!  :(

I like the religion analogy. I think  what it comes down to for me is that even if it is "like a religion" to some extent we always have to be able to take a step back and say, yeah but these are still just movies, just stories, why should it matter so much if I like it and you don't (not you Napseeker in particular, I'm speaking about the theoretical "you" on the other side of any debate)? Someone comes to discuss things for some reason, probably because they  are passionate about some things that I am too (like say the films that started it all!) and a little "wishing things had turned out differently" is to be expected. I know I can imagine what I think would have been much better prequels (again, at least for me. And I could be wrong! They may just feel really awesome in my own head!)

The fact that this is just a growing set of stories set in the same universe as the films that were, in all likelihood "lighting in a bottle", means that some are either going to work for you, or won't. And if years of hating on the PT has taught me anything I think it is that sometimes just accepting what is (even if that means you don't watch it, don't include it in your overall picture of the SW story that you enjoy) is probably healthier. Live and let live...but by no means go to the opposite extreme and enslave yourself to something based on the fact that it is attached even officially to what you like about something. Though...I can see some getting attached by its "official-ity" because that's their "thing"....and though it's not my thing, it may be the way someone gets pleasure, gets to feel like they are participating in something. So...

TFA made me realize PERSONALLY that I think what I enjoyed about SW was the more straightforward storytelling with broad stroke human drama that I can get without overthinking it. I also enjoy that it borrowed from current television trends of leaving several dangling plot lines in order to produce more product (i.e. film, tv, books) down the road to resolve these unanswered questions (yes all franchises do this but TFA did it more so...who is Snoke, Rey's parents, what's up with Luke, the Knights of Ren etc etc etc). The OT wasn't so "dangly" IMO. By the end of ANH we pretty much didn't have many questions about any of the primary plot lines! We were curious about what Vader and Stormtroopers looked like under their armour, maybe some of us wondered who the Emperor was (I know I did not care, figured he was a career politician type in my own kid-way!) and the only burning question was "what's next!?!" But I feel that even though it dangles more, none of TFAs questions are so convoluted yet that I feel they will have me scratching my head (the way many of the machinations of the PT did).

So, though I could try to argue that objectively this kind of straight forward drama driven by cool battles, aliens, etc. is what SW always was and that it seems obvious to me that anyone who enjoyed the OT should like TFA at the same time I recognize that a) people may not have liked SW for the reasons I think they did and/or b) it changed for them over time which is legitimate and/or c) they want something new, perhaps even quite radically different even if placed side by side the OT and/or d) they wish that it was exactly the same right down to the type of film stock used, complete lack of CGI and nothing but mid-seventies to mid-eighties haircuts! :)

The ONLY issue I take with what you wrote is that it does seem you are assuming those who like/defend it passionately are doing so like zealots...or at least that some do. This may be the case for a very small minority, or perhaps non-existent. The apparent fanatics may just actually really really really like it and articulate their reasons why poorly or just want to have a completely emotional response that need not be backed up by any argumentation.

People are free to criticize a title with little or nothing to go on. Saying it is too similar to other titles is a legitimate criticism in that it is unarguably true. It is similar. The value judgment based on little other than personal tolerance for the similarity though is the word "too". This changes the statement from one of fact to one of value judgment. The response is pretty much, well so what if it is similar? Does this mean the film will be garbage? If it is garbage, was it because of the title? No, not even if you point to the title as a symptom of laziness overall. The title did not make it lazy, the lazy writing/input of all those with the power to have input did so. But at this point the title is meaningless in terms of the what the quality of the story itself will be. Like I said Return of...is not underused either (though I haven't the time to check and see chronologically where ROTJ fits in to the use of it in story titling history!) Most SW titles are in some sense aping story titling conventions (especially from old serialized movies). The Last Jedi to me seems like an appropriate aping. Sure if it had been called something more original like...you know what? I work in TV and cinema and NOTHING more original is coming to me at the moment! Almost everything has been used! At least in the sense of "Fall of..." "Rise of...", The X of (something)"....it is hard to imagine a completely original title without it perhaps seeming ridiculous! Rey's Big Day Out? (kidding) That might be part of Disney Corp/Lucasfilm's motives here "keep it simple stupid" and let the audience know you're not going to throw them a curveball. When i think of Disney I don't think of "taking chances"...often it is safe or smart small-not-radical newness. Anyway, I personally like the title, I can see why some don't, but I'm not going to say that the title has me feeling that I can guess at the quality of what will come with it. I'm hopeful more based on my enjoyment of TFA and RO so far!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on January 31, 2017, 08:04:25 PM
Is it possible this really is not the title?   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 31, 2017, 09:20:13 PM
This was an official release but I guess you never know!

However, just seeing your one line post sitting there so quaintly after Napseeker and my essays makes me hope it isn't! :)
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on February 17, 2017, 10:36:02 AM
I'm fairly sure it's got to be the official title, they're using it in multiple languages already AND, there's now confirmation that "the last jedi" is indeed plural, likely referring to both Rey and Luke (and maybe any other students that could've lived or been trained since his disappearance?).  Evidence is here:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-is-totally-plural-if-youre-bi-1792473880

p.s. Sinkie: and I thought I wrote long postings ;)

EDIT: and the new canon novel disproves some of the crazier theories about Jar-Jar being an evil mastermind... the fate of Jar-Jar Binks post-RotJ!

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-new-star-wars-aftermath-novel-reveals-the-pitiful-1792481018

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on February 17, 2017, 04:17:02 PM
Yeah, I just looked up the French title and it is Les Derniers Jedis. Glad that it is plural, so it takes a lot of this speculation away.
I'm looking forward to reading the last Aftermath - I'll skip that article so that I don't get any spoilers for the book  :scared0008:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on April 16, 2017, 01:50:18 AM
Well, the first trailer is up.  If only I could put myself to sleep for the next 7 or 8 months.  Too long of a wait.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jediburrick on April 19, 2017, 08:34:45 PM
(https://image.ibb.co/eiu8Fk/Skips.jpg)

LOL!!! 1rst time I'm almost unable to watch a SW trailer because I felt it was too funny. All I was thinking was : that's no Luke...it's Skips talking !!!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Wedge1021 on April 19, 2017, 08:55:45 PM
Speaking of breathing... I thought it was kinda funny how Ep8 teaser starts with a gasp from Rey, similar to how the Ep7 one started with Finn. Kinda like they're trolling themselves a bit.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on April 19, 2017, 10:32:47 PM
Yeah, I just looked up the French title and it is Les Derbiers Jedis. Glad that it is plural, so it takes a lot of this speculation away.
I'm looking forward to reading the last Aftermath - I'll skip that article do that I don't get any spoilers for the book  :scared0008:

Now that we've seen the trailer and have listened to the directors comments form Celebration, we know that it is singular and refers only to Luke.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on May 06, 2017, 06:22:49 PM
Yeha, strange that he says it is singular, when the foreign language titles suggest plural. Maybe he is trying to mess with people? Who knows. Really, I don't want to know until the movie comes out. 7 more months... :artoo:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: DarthMark on October 09, 2017, 09:47:02 PM
Tickets are online NOW at Cineplex for the 15th, just scored mine. Select your theater and screen date and you should see it appear.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on October 10, 2017, 01:18:37 AM
Checked ticket availability before the trailer was about to air & found they were already being sold online! I grabbed a pair for a special fan event starting at 6pm on the 14th. Not sure what time they'll show the movie at though.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on October 10, 2017, 10:35:40 PM
I got mine for the 7PM showing on the 14th.

Will comment on the new trailer in the next few days....
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Subcoolin on October 10, 2017, 10:38:16 PM
Awesome stuff!!  I got tickets for the Cineplex clarington with the reclining chairs...lol.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 14, 2017, 12:09:14 AM
Guess I never commented on the trailer... I liked it I guess.

Tomorrow night at this time I will be just about finished watching the movie.  Way more excited for this one than I can remember being for the last two. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: DarthDerek on December 14, 2017, 12:29:04 AM
For some reason I'm not excited for TLJ at all. I will be seeing it Friday evening , and of course I want to see it but, I think I'm bracing myself for a real disappointment. Lack of Original script wise. Empire plot 2.0  :P
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 14, 2017, 09:34:54 PM
Beware, I'm going to let it all hang out here in after a good chunk of space. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS - PLEASE DO NOT READ AHEAD UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN THE MOVIE.

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OK SERIOUSLY - LEAVE NOW

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I guess I'm first, so I'm going to say up front I'm still forming my opinion. It's nowhere near bad, I guess I just don't see exactly where it fits in for me just yet. It's a completely overwhelming movie. Completely. I am just going to make a list of points that I'd like to hear thoughts on because I still can't even come close to getting my head around this thing yet.

- the crawl sets of the stage, as per usual... but much to my surprise the Resistance is on the run from a much more powerful first order. First ??? moment as I guess I had assumed they'd be running scared after losing Starkiller Base - somehow that didn't set t hem back at all

- Poe's grand standing at the start was a good action sequence, good comedy (as there was throughout, I actually enjoyed the humor here more than usual - we'll see if it grows on me or grows tiresome after another few viewings)

- in that vein Chewie getting ready to enjoy the roast porg almost made me crap my pants

- there are some real significant deaths. Snoke's demise was incredible as was the lightsaber battle with the praetorian guards, just amazing

- Luke's death (yep) didn't hit me the same way Han's did... and I've always been a Luke guy. I guess it was supposed to feel as though he was at piece, and maybe that came across in the movie making. It was beautifully done

- the projection of the Force Astral Form through me for a loop, but I DID ask myself if Luke was "really there" when he first appeared with Leia. He looked like Flashback Luke

- the reveal of Rey's parentage (if that's the truth) was a relief. So glad not everything has to be connected to the Skywalker lineage, it makes the story so much bigger

- someone confirm with me that the youngling at the end uses the force to grab the broom. I wanted to believe he did but it was subtle, or else I wasn't focusing on that part of the frame. I'm literally 100 percent sure he did, just seeking confirmation

- it was nice to see Yoda back

- Leia's zombie spacewalk was a little much me me, I think I pulled an eye from rolling it too briskly

More to come, can't wait to discuss.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 14, 2017, 11:55:31 PM
I was there for the 6 pm showing.  For those not there for a fan show.  They started it off with the director talking to us, we got free popcorn and some exclusive stickers.  Then we were treated to a walk down memory lane with vintage video of John Williams and George Lucas and later the new director in the sound stage creating the music for Star Wars.   Nice beginning for the OTC fans.   

If your are buying a pop with a topper figure - get the RED figure - they are very much a part of the movie and unique to this film. 

So the movie, like JJreason I am trying to process what I saw.  But bottom line, ranking the recent 3 movies:
1) Rogue One
2) The Force Awakens
3) The Last Jedi.

This movie will not surpass the Force Awakens in total box office numbers.

Yes they made characters worst than Jar Jar, seriously tell me the Caretakers are not the worst characters ever created in the Star Wars universe.  The porgs are cute in the lets eat chicken scene - but why put them on the MF.   Luke milking the island cows was a weird scene.   

Leia flying through space was really one of crappiest scenes ever shot in Star Wars history.   And of course if they knew she was going to die they should have let her drive the space ship into the bigger space ship. 

Best scenes: 1) Luke kissing Leia on the forehead
                   2) Luke's battle scene
                   3) Poe's battle scene at the beginning
                   4) The Throne room fight scene
                   5) The kiss between Fin and the Mechanic
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 15, 2017, 04:01:59 AM
Maybe I'll like it better in the morning.

Some initial (knee jerk; thought mostly jerk) thoughts - apologies now, it's late and I should probably be in bed, but here I go anyways:

1. When Leia said the "spark had gone out", I thought, yep, that basically sums up my opinion of TLJ.

2. This isn't Star Wars.  It's Swerve Wars. 


Ren's going to fire on Leia.  No, he's not.  He only kills dads.  (How Oedipus of him.)  She's safe.  Wait, the other ships fire.  She's not safe!

Gasp!  Leia's dead!  No.  She's not.  She's not dead!  She's ... flying? 

Luke's going to train Rey (assumed). No, he's not.  Yes, he is.  (Was there a lesson 3?)

Rey's knocking on the door.  No.  Rey's knocking down the door.  Oh, it's Chewie.

Ben attacked Luke.  No, Luke attacked Ben.  No, Luke only considered attacking Ben.

Rey's in the cave.  We're going to see her parents!  No, we're going to her reflection!  Good one Disney!

Luke's going to burn down the Jedi tree.  No, he's not.  The tree is safe.  No, it's not.  Good one Yoda!

Rose and Finn have found the code breaker.  Oh no, the po-po have found Rose and Finn!  Wait, could they have found another code breaker?  No, DJ's just a common thief. No, he is a code breaker!  But he does only care about money - he takes Rose's special pendant! Wait!  No, he gives back the pendant.  He's nice!  Wait!  He's not!

Rose and Finn are going to save the day.  Thanks, Poe!  Oh no, they're captured by alarm clock heads.  Hurray, they escape.  They really are going to save the day!  Thanks, DJ!  Oh no, Phasma knows!  (Uncle Jesse's not going to like this DJ!)  Time to die ... but not for them.

Holdo(?) has no plan.  Oh, yes she does.

Holdo's escaped.  She's going to get Poe.  No, she's not.  It's Leia!  Poe's safe.  Oh no he's not.

Kylo's turned.  He and Rey are going to be bestest friends ever!  Wait, cancel the cupcakes!  He's still a nogoodnik!

Finn's going to suicide the laser to the ground.  No, Rose saved him.  Oh no!  She's dead.  Oh no she's not.

Luke is back to save the day.  Wait.  He is, but he isn't.  But, he is okay.  No, wait.  He's dead!

Playing a drinking game based on the amount of swerves in this film could be ... cost prohibitive.   

3.  The language.  I'm of the mind that Star Wars films are for 4 year olds - not 40 year olds.  I like Star Wars heroes my kids can emulate.  I do not want to hear my kid call someone a B----RD (like Finn).  Or say, hey dad, check out that big a-- door!  (Of course, it's not Star Wars without someone using the term "big a--" so I should probably strike it from the list.  "Wow, Qui-Gonn, this sure is one big a-- shiny ship!"  "My mom always says the problem with this big a-- universe is people aren't kind enough." "Master Yoda, I've discovered a big a-- amount of clones.  More than enough to make one big a-- army for the Republic."  "Luke, you need to come with me to Alderaan. I'm getting to old for these big a-- adventures." "You ask for the impossible!  How am I supposed to lift that big a-- ship."  "Oh, the shield generator is still very much operational.  Your friends are in for a big a-- world of hurt.  Yes, I have foreseen it, young Skywalker.)

4.  So I guess the core story of Star Wars isn't Luke's hero journey.  Nor is it the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.  Rather, it's, basically, silly Jedi.  The Force is for everybody. 

4b. What's left for the ST to pour cold water on?  Han and Leia's storybook romance doesn't end with happily ever after.  The peace won by the Rebels is short lived.  Good guy Luke is actually sometimes "confused about good" guy Luke and helped create bad guy Ren.  Good guy X-Wings are sold by the same guy that sells bad guy TIE fighters.  The Jedi are dumb heads. 

5. Hey, at least now we know why Hasbro's TLJ line doesn't feature any interesting looking aliens, robots, bounty hunters, space pirates, rebels, ...

6. What happened to the Knights of Ren?

7. So, Rey's dead beat parents dumped her off for cash than took off in a space ship ... to another part of Jakku. 

8.  So, Snoke is a powerful Force user old enough to have been alive during the Empire and probably the Clone Wars and we get to find out ... he likes yellow robes and red wall paper.  What's his motivation?  Why form the First Order?  How did he get his scars?  Why ask why?  He's got wonderful taste in bathrobes.  Do we really need to know more than that?  Sidious wanted to wipe out the Jedi because of an ancient rivalry between the Dark side and the Light side.  The Rebellion wants to defeat the Empire to bring freedom to the galaxy.  Snoke wants to do stuff because ...

9.  Rose was cool.  I liked her addition to the universe.  Of course, a new robot (other than BB-H8), a new space pirate, a new bounty hunter, a new anyone not human would have been nice, too.

10. I hoped Han's death would appear, I don't know, more meaningful after seeing this, but TLJ made me see his death more like it really was just a contractual obligation to get Ford to appear in TFA.

Well, it's late so I'll end with the closing credit font is nice.  What comes before it ...  not sure yet. 

If you liked the movie, great.  Don't let my initial cynicism spoil it for you.  For me the magic just wasn't there.  Maybe another viewing will change my mind, but, for now, I'm just not eager for more of TLJ's universe.  I think I see where they're going with the next one with perhaps a kind of Ratatouille "anyone can be a Jedi" theme, and  that can be cool, I guess.

But I do kind of miss the days of Star Wars just being a fairly straight forward rollicking space adventure that was fun for the whole family.

Just my tired two cents.  Time for bed.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 15, 2017, 06:54:27 AM
Great post! The experience of watching the movie I didn't really touch on - I kept asking myself "is this REALLY what's happening????" over and over and over. Since Episode I, my initial viewings have always sort of been painful while I process all the new info, I think that's CERTAINLY happening this time, more than ever before.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on December 15, 2017, 06:59:30 AM
Overall, this was a good movie. I'm not sure I'm really feeling that right now, but the rational part of me says that it was. There were highs and lows, for sure. It will take many more viewings for me to really know where I place this in the Star Wars pantheon.


*******************Spoilers below*************************************











I agree with a lot of the comments so far, both good and bad. Here are some of the things that stood out to me:

The Good:
The overall flow of the movie - this one did a better job of having the feel of ESB without remaking it than TFA did with Episode 4. The resistance starts on the run, they are on the run through the movie, and they end on the run. Overall, the good guys get their butts kicked, just like in ESB. The walker scene on the white planet (sure, it was salt and not snow) was a bit too much of a copy, but at least they didn't trip up the walkers with landspeeders.

The fight scenes were great, like Rey + Kylo versus the red guards. The "Luke" versus Kylo scene at the end was fine. In general, the action sequences were well done.

The humor was good. I rarely felt like they overdid it, although it was close at times. Overall, the tone was good.

The tie-ins with the recent books were good. There were some things from "The Legends of Luke Skywalker" like Luke using the Force with a giant long pole to catch fish, or even the whole idea of legends of Luke being told in pockets of the galaxy, like with the children at the end of the movie (I agree JJ - on first viewing, I couldn't quite be sure if he had used the force to get the broom or not, but I think he must have, otherwise why would that scene have been considered important enough to be the final scene?). Also, from the book Leia: Princess of Alderaan, we were introduced to the planet Crait, and the fact that it was an important rebel base, so that was cool to see it on screen. I haven't finished Phasma yet, so not sure if there are tie-ins there.

The bad:
The whole take on Luke was just not good enough for me. Admittedly, I come into this film with a lot of baggage, namely the EU. However, eben wiping that out, we saw a powerful Jedi emerging in ROTJ. To think that Luke never really did anything with his potential - he never succesfully trained even a single Jedi, unless we are now considering that Rey has completed her training? I just think this diminishes the whole arc of the PT/OT

Luke's death is borderline. I don't hate it, but I am disappointed we don't see more from Luke. I should have known better. However, like Bespin-81 says, everything doesn't have to be a twist. It looks like Luke survives, as it was only a projection, but then he dies and becomes one with the Force? Why? I am ok with twists that make sense - Kylo changing back and forth seemingly is real to me as he is conflicted. DJ changing back and forth feels the same - I see him as a Lando or Han type of character who is good at heart but has had to look out for number 1 his whole life, so doing the right thing doesn't ome easy for him. I expect we will see more of him in episode 9. But all of the other twists just seemed unecessary.

Captain Phasma being resurrected from her fiery grave of Starkiller base just to have 2 minutes of screen time before another fiery death? I just don't get it...

The Ugly:
Luke milking those whatever they were. Just weird. What a waste of a scene...

Leia surviving out in deep space for what seemed like a minute at least. I could MAYBE buy it if she got balsted out, but we see right away that she is using some force technique to maintain and air bubble or something and quickly pulls herself back in. But she was unconscious, and I don't think you can use the force when you are unconscious, so for her to have survived until she came too out in a vacuum at nearly absolute zero temperature is ridiculous.

The aliens in this weren't great. Most of them, like the porgs, the caretakers, and the ones on Canto Bight, just looked fake. I am used to cutting edge effects in Star Wars movies, so when I see subpar CG that makes aliens look almost like cartoons plopped onto the screen, it disappoints me.

That's all for now. The best thing about this for me, I think, is I am hoping now I can go and enjoy episode 9 much more. You may be wondering why, based on this review, but here is the reason: So much of my disappointment in 7 and 8 has come from expectations - what is Han's story, or Luke's story even more, as Luke was always my favorite. I wanted to see them romping across the galaxy, kicking some First Order butt, and being the heroes. I am less concerned about Leia, but even so, there can't be much in number 9 about her, as they have said they aren't going to use CG. So, the slate is now clean, and I can go in with no expectations, just allowing them to take these new characters wherever they are going to go, so I don't think I can be nearly as disappointed. Let's hope not, anyway

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 15, 2017, 07:08:43 AM
My son is very musical so both of us loved the John Williams mini documentary at the start. Absolutely amazing.

Leia - I was fully expecting that to be her death scene, her floating away like that. It was settled, heroic, tie a bow on it & write her off - it would/could/should have worked... but now she's still alive at least as far as the movies go & JJ Abrams gets to deal with that in IX.

As far as the aliens go, I liked the POV walk through the casino, but not as much as Maz's place in TFA. There were some neat looking critters there. I will be happy as always to get the visual dictionary so I can have a better look at some of them as many barely got flashed on the screen for any time at all.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: PizzatheHutt on December 15, 2017, 09:13:02 AM
The last Jedi for me at times had a few amazing parts that equaled the OT.  But most of it was awful & I would take the PT over most of it any day of the week.  I know what they are trying to do draw in a bigger audience by trying to appease everybody the masses.  But even though it looks & sounds like a SW movie,  set in the SW universe.  It sure does not feel at all like a SW movie.  It does have it's moments from time to time in the film but not enough of them to make it a good film.

I hope with my second viewing on Tuesday I will enjoy it much more but this movie left me conflicted so far I do not even know if I like it or hate it,  But I know for sure I rate it as the worst movie in the franchise.


Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 15, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
Great comments guys.  I agree with everything being said.  After reading Bespin-81 comments - I think what he pointed out about all the changes in direction of what was happening - that probably is a bigger indication of this movie just did not know where it was going or at the very least how to get there.  I am pretty certain, based on the comment thus far that the majority of the fans on this site will be agreeing with PizzatheHutt that this is the worst movie in the franchise .  Time will tell and a second viewing is probably a good idea.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 15, 2017, 09:27:06 AM
That's a tough one - if I could have TFA & LJ or I & II which would I pick? I will have to mull it over. AOTC has NOT aged well for me... the romance is just too terrible.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jmac on December 15, 2017, 10:01:26 AM
After seeing the movie last night, I agree with a lot of the comments here. This movie was a big let down in so many ways: plot, lack of character development (especially Snoke),  visuals, and classic characters acting out of character. It seems like this movie chose to ignore much of what came before. I really am wishing George Lucas either hadn't sold or at least that Disney had used his scripts. My dissatisfaction might just be because I have been a Star Wars fan for such a long time and the modern vision for Star Wars is moving beyond the old fans. I like to be able to go to a Star Wars movie and come out thinking it was fun. This did not happen with The Last Jedi.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 15, 2017, 11:04:23 AM
I'm fully disappointed, the slow speed chase until the fleet ran out of gas seemed like a Zamboni race or something, don't get me stared on Leia flying, luke "died" pointlessly and it seems to me Disney wants to wipe away the old cast as quickly as possible. The first 5 minutes were a waste, I really really liked the yoda scene, a lot, and really cool of them to put harry potter in at the end!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 15, 2017, 11:12:05 AM
The first 5 minutes being Poe's grandstand play? I thought that was ok. I liked the bombing sequence too. Too much time given to the chase but only when you compare it to how LITTLE time was given to Rey just being dropped off right outside Snoke's door without incident, and the dismissal of the actual codebreaker without so much as meeting the character. Time spent in weird places without a doubt.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 15, 2017, 11:44:17 AM
Hux's reactions to Poe, wasn't believable to me really, imagine Tarkin in the same position. the bombing was good, I guess part of my issue with the film was that there is little build up and follow through, dreadnaughts don't seem very scary after a few x wings and a bomber take it out.
I can't get my head around the fact that they built up snoke, then killed him with a gotcha then the epic battle was with his body guards??
the whole canto bight scene seemed like fill
BB8 piloted an AT ST, R2 and Chewie really might as well not shown up for this movie and I don't know about chewies life expectancy in the next film

I will give credit where it is due though, Hamill and Carrie Fisher acted amazingly well, and the Yoda/luke scenes was some of the best star wars parts I've seen since the original trilogy, I just wish the rest of the movie was deeper and more consistent with the star wars universe we all know and love
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 15, 2017, 12:35:27 PM
LET THE PAST DIE.... KILL IT..

Might as well change this to a spoiler thread! 

Major spoilers to follow.

When Luke says "This isn't going to end the way you think", he couldn't be more right.

I went into the move totally spoiler free, except for any trailers or tv spots.  And I'm glad I did because my biggest "kid" moment was when Yoda appeared.  I've been waiting for that for a long time.  But like most I'm torn.  Luke wasn't who I wanted him to be, and he didn't do enough to go out like that.  I think his ending was great actually - but he didn't do enough to get to that point.  I wanted to see "lasersword" fights!

Canadian Jedi mentioned that the Leia space walk was the weirdest Star Wars scene ever.  I would say, Luke milking the teats of that cow/walrus thing was the weirdest.  However it did feel a lot like Guardians of the Galaxy.

jj questioned if the kid at the end used the force, and yes he did.  I think it was trying to say 1) there is hope, 2) a jedi doesn't have to be a skywalker or kenobi.

So here is what I didn't like:
- Phasma shows up halfway through the movie only to get a spanking by Finn and fall to her death.  They built her up this year with a book and a comic run only for her to lose to someone with basic stormtrooper training.  She should be the baddest person in the army. 
- Was there a Willhelm scream?
- Snooke.  What the fart, man.  It's said that he was more powerful that Palpatine and Vader, but he gets mowed down like Maul?  I kept waiting for something to happen with him, a clone, a hologram, something... but no, he really was dead.  Before we even got to know him.  And for the record, I thought he was a good baddie.  So much potential. 
- Luke.  My idol.  I wanted to see you become the greatest jedi of all time.  I felt you were done a huge disservice. 
- Rey's parents.  I wanted her to be Luke's.
- No one answered the Ressistance's call.  After reading Bloodline - Leia had so many allies.  And where is freaking Lando!

Here is what I did like:
- Yoda.  Though, I didn't like him destroying the tree. 
- The humor was good, I had one laugh out loud moment but I don't remember what it was.
- Luke standing up to all of the walkers and taking fire.
- The Kylo vs Luke was great - but too short.  I wanted to see Luke do more jedi stuff.
- The 20 seconds Luke spent with Leia. 
- The introduction of astral projection.  It's awesome that Luke could do that but apparently it drains you life away. 

When I left the theater, I didn't know what I thought.  In comparison to Rouge One, I was thinking, "that was the Darth Vader scene that I've always wanted to see."  I guess I was more disappointed that Luke, Leia, and Han are all gone.  And if they are gone, what's left for me?  I'm sure Luke will come back as a force ghost in IX but it's not the same. 

One other disappointment was no Han Solo trailer.  I'm not looking forward to it, but I did want to see something from it, since it comes out in May. 

Well, I guess the only thing to do is go see it again and see how I feel then. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Ookk on December 15, 2017, 01:20:26 PM
...did they have the "I've got a bad feeling about this" line?

I can't remember it if they did.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 15, 2017, 02:54:08 PM
Canadian Jedi mentioned that the Leia space walk was the weirdest Star Wars scene ever.  I would say, Luke milking the teats of that cow/walrus thing was the weirdest.  However it did feel a lot like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Luke milking the island cows was a weird scene.   

Leia flying through space was really one of crappiest scenes ever shot in Star Wars history.   And of course if they knew she was going to die they should have let her drive the space ship into the bigger space ship. 

Just want to make sure I am bringing properly quoted I stated milking Island cows was a weird scene you stated it was the weirdest - I think we are in agreement on this.

Leia flying through space was not weird it was crappy.  :P
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 15, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
Canadian Jedi mentioned that the Leia space walk was the weirdest Star Wars scene ever.  I would say, Luke milking the teats of that cow/walrus thing was the weirdest.  However it did feel a lot like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Luke milking the island cows was a weird scene.   

Leia flying through space was really one of crappiest scenes ever shot in Star Wars history.   And of course if they knew she was going to die they should have let her drive the space ship into the bigger space ship. 

Just want to make sure I am bringing properly quoted I stated milking Island cows was a weird scene you stated it was the weirdest - I think we are in agreement on this.

Leia flying through space was not weird it was crappy.  :P

Yes, sorry we are in agreement. 

The whole time I'm thinking, "well this is how she goes out", and I was starting to accept it.  But then it turned into the scene from Guardians of the Galaxy.  It was nice knowing that she can use the force though. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 15, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Just saw it and my feeling after was:
A film that was simultaneously peppered with fun and squandered opportunities.

And the pacing was just god awful.

Makes TFA look like a masterpiece IMO, at least JJ knew how to recycle and to take that recycled stuff and pace and frame and edit and get most of the motivation to feel semi-believable.

My biggest question is: Will the younglings like it? If so, then perhaps Disney is just going their way and if it works for everybody but the old fogeys then so be it. They probably won't be losing any sleep over it.

Best moments the Kylo and Rey thing...sort of...Snoke went down WAYYYYYY too easily, especially given the rumours that he was this uber-powerful dark force user. And then Kylo went back to being angry boy WAYYYY too easily. But the moment where they almost joined forces to become something "new" (ok "newish") had me hopeful. Until it all fell to pieces.

And Rey's origin is interesting in hindsight. At the time it felt like a massive let down but then I thought...if I hadn't been expecting an ESB level reveal would I have found it so strange? And I thought, no, it is kind of interesting actually. If I was a kid and was just living with "nobody" parents in a "nowhere" situation...maybe I'd find it inspiring. I know that I found Luke interesting instinctively as a kid in the first film because he wasn't "destined" right off the bat. He was a farm boy with big dreams!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 15, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
...did they have the "I've got a bad feeling about this" line?

I can't remember it if they did.

It was there...in the subtext...after about 10 minutes in.  :party0007:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 06:49:53 AM
More thoughts - please let me know your opinions on these things. Sorry to fill the thread I just need some way to vent this stuff out as I continue to try and get my head around all this new stuff.

Achto & the Luke/Rey (& Yoda!!!) storyline are fine, I basically have no issue with any of this. My 2 favourite lines in fact were "I've seen your daily routine - you're not busy." and "Failure, the greatest teacher, is."

Finn in the movie - kinda weird from beginning to end. Coupled with the almost cruelly short Phasma appearance (here she is, there she goes again!) I feel his story should have been different. I don't think he needed to get back to help on Crait, they almost should have left him with Phasma longer to get her the screen time she likely should have had.

Poe in the movie - I guess I'm ok in retrospect but during the movie I thought his coup attempt was way over the top, but he got what he deserved from Leia for that one.

Leia in the movie - good, but now they have to deal with her death off screen, which I'm not a fan of. It's a shame she won't get her true sending off in Ep IX as was apparently the intention. I'm sure they'll honour her somehow.

Canto Bight/DJ - wouldn't it have been something if Lando had been in that cell? I wonder if that was the initial plan but Billy Dee couldn't/wouldn't do it. It seemed so much like the perfect environment to find him in. I have a feeling we have to see DJ in IX, him leaving with the payout a la Han Solo had me waiting for him to swoop back in to save the day at the end... but it never came. Commentary on the global condition, I guess.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 16, 2017, 08:33:23 AM
I'm always amazed at how my opinion is almost the exact opposite of everyone else's.  I've made no secret that I thought The Force Awakens was a steaming piece of garbage (times 20) and really, any complaints about Luke not living up to his potential is more the fault of JJAbrams' poor writing skills, not Rian's.

I loved TLJ.  It had everything for me that TFA was completely and wholly missing: I felt tension/fear for the lives of all of the characters, both the old cast and the new cast. I remember feeling nothing, no tension at all, during the entirety of the boring TFA. There was never any sense of danger whatsoever to our heroes. 

I didn't like Finn in TFA (mostly due to the poor writing, not the fault of the actor) but I felt genuinely worried as he raced towards what seemed to be his doom.  I thought "No! Don't do it Finn!!!" which even caught me by surprise...

Rey who I so wanted to love in TFA ultimately was a disappointing Mary Sue who didn't really undergo any serious trials that would make me respect her as a potential hero - well in TLJ she gets the stuffing genuinely knocked out of her and faces some tough choices that had me guessing where she'd go. Unlike the last film, I felt nothing could be predicted or taken for granted; I love that.

Nothing had me in total shock more than Snoke's unexpected death and Kylo's rise to Supreme Leader - it makes sense to me for Rian to foil the audience expectation that Snoke would just hang around for the next film for his eventual defeat by Rey somehow. Nope!  Here we have Kylo doing what Vader could not do: the apprentice killed his master and became the new master. NICE.

I understand Luke's (momentary) temptation to kill Ben. He has firsthand experience with Vader and knows that he can't allow another Vader to be unleashed on the galaxy. It's the classic "if you could kill Hitler as a child", would you do it?  The key thing is that he stopped himself. He didn't actually try to do it and that for me, preserved Luke's character. I was also fearful that Luke wouldn't get a chance to show any bad-assery before he might've died. No need to worry at all.  And for anyone disappointed by his death, my only feeling is that Han had a far more insulting death - FAR MORE - I've already wrote about that in another thread. Luke died at peace. He didn't get gutted like a piece of meat or died like a punk. He came to save the fragile remains of the new Rebellion at the time of its greatest need and darkest moment. He saved Leia.  He got to die a hero, unlike Han. That's good enough for me.

This film makes up for TFA in spades. Two thumbs up from me.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 09:13:34 AM
Glad to hear Disney finally got something right for you!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 09:46:51 AM
jjreason I talked to Billy Dee Williams at Grand Rapids Comic Con in November I asked him if Disney had approached him for anything he said no, I agree a Lando appearance would have been awesome, another opportunity for him to show was when Leia called for help at the base.

This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 09:58:01 AM
I think a lot of people are finding it jarring, for sure. I've read lots of good arguments FOR and AGAINST the more polarizing parts of the movie.

I found the development of Reylo to be very intriguing. There is lots of potential for them to have a great ending to this story.

Some things I wanted I didn't get - more info about Snoke, anything further than what he we had about Poe & Finn.... but you can't have it all.

The critical things here were the treatment of Luke, which I thought was perfect, and the treatment of Leia which I didn't like the ending of at all. That's where my trouble lies in deciding how much I liked this movie.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 16, 2017, 10:49:05 AM
This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?

That's an interesting question. 

It kind of reminds of what I've read about the Hasbro situation with Star Wars toys.  Hasbro won 't make play sets because they say they don't sell.  For TLJ, they make a giant BB-8 with a bad guy base in his belly and ask $200 for it.  It's not going to sell.  Does not selling a bad play set prove all play sets don't sell?  For Hasbro, it probably will and it'll be an excuse to never make a Death Star or Jabba's Sail Barge.

With TLJ, it's proving to be a disappointment with the general audience.  But, it's a live action "chapter" of Star Wars.  It's going to make money.  How many of us who didn't like it will attend a second or third screening?  I suspect many.  It's like that SNL skit about buying Star Wars toys.  We'll see it once because it's Star Wars.  If we don't like it, we'll see it again anyway to confirm we don't like it because maybe we missed something.  And if we still don't like, we'll still go a third time just to make sure.  Then we'll buy the bluray/DVD/digital combo of a movie we don't like because we don't want an incomplete collection.

Will Disney/Lucasfilm look more at the dissatisfaction or the profits?  I have no idea.

I suspect this may, however, increase the pressure for Solo to perform well. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 10:57:12 AM
The force awakens creates the questions about snoke and Rey's parents and set this movie up to be an easy home run, I just can't understand why the two main questions from the previous episode were thrown in the garbage. the Last Jedi not only is a wreck but also effects TFA and makes it a little less relavant, JJ Abrams will have his hands full fixing star wars in episode 9

I thought almost every character in The Last Jedi was out of character, the bold rush into danger help his friends Luke actually didn't leave the island he's probably got too much milking to do, Chewie was down graded to a chauffer, the undeniable brash R2 showed Luke one projection for about 5 seconds, Leia all of a sudden and use the force to keep from freezing in space, move herself in space and keep the pressurization of the ship from bursting out as she enters the ship, and I'm with you on not giving her a send off, if you didn't know Carrie had passed, you wouldn't know it from any hint on screen. Finn, Rose, Phasma have no purpose in the film, BB8 is all of a sudden a super droid, Poe is a mutineer, Snoke is not the protected mysterious all seeing master, Admiral Ackbar was a passing mention, and replaced by Hodor who no one really cares about. Rey and Kylo where about the only ones who were even close to being on point. Episode 8 goes against everything Star Wars, the resistance might as well call the autobots or star fleet for some help lol
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 11:05:11 AM
This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?

That's an interesting question. 

It kind of reminds of what I've read about the Hasbro situation with Star Wars toys.  Hasbro won 't make play sets because they say they don't sell.  For TLJ, they make a giant BB-8 with a bad guy base in his belly and ask $200 for it.  It's not going to sell.  Does not selling a bad play set prove all play sets don't sell?  For Hasbro, it probably will and it'll be an excuse to never make a Death Star or Jabba's Sail Barge.

With TLJ, it's proving to be a disappointment with the general audience.  But, it's a live action "chapter" of Star Wars.  It's going to make money.  How many of us who didn't like it will attend a second or third screening?  I suspect many.  It's like that SNL skit about buying Star Wars toys.  We'll see it once because it's Star Wars.  If we don't like it, we'll see it again anyway to confirm we don't like it because maybe we missed something.  And if we still don't like, we'll still go a third time just to make sure.  Then we'll buy the bluray/DVD/digital combo of a movie we don't like because we don't want an incomplete collection.

Will Disney/Lucasfilm look more at the dissatisfaction or the profits?  I have no idea.

I suspect this may, however, increase the pressure for Solo to perform well. 

About 5 minutes after the movie ended I did want to see it again to make sure I hated it! lol After sleeping on it for a night I knew there was just too much wrong with it, and I thought to myself, I'm not going back to support it, I 'm not buying any merch from the film and as much as it pains me to not have the full collection on Blu-ray I won't buy it unless its second hand or clearance lol
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Cmdr Bacara on December 16, 2017, 11:23:41 AM
I didn't hate it, but I'm not sure I really liked it.  There were some good scenes, but the Yoda appearance and the floating Leia scenes really annoyed me.  I also found the OJ Simpson style slow chase between the 1st Order and the Resistance Cruiser to be silly.

Usually I see each movie twice but I don't want to bother seeing TLJ again.  The audience as I left last night seemed underwhelmed also.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on December 16, 2017, 12:42:01 PM
Great comments in this thread.

One point I would make is that I don't think audiences don't like this movie. Super fans like us may be griping about it, but the average casual fan and non-fan seem to love this movie. Even with the Fanboy hate, it rates at 8.0/10 on IMDB, suggesting that others must really like it, and it scored an "A" cinema score from audiences on opening night.

JJ - I agree that we haven't seen the last of DJ. He is a Han/Lando type character for me, and I also thought that we may see him come back later in TLJ to help save the day. He seems like he is all about the money, but I think he does care somewhere behind all the gruff.

Several people have mentioned, and I agree, that Chewie and the droids (C-3P0 and especially R2) are under-utilized in the movies. I would like to see more of them. And with all of the pointless scenes (Luke milking the teats of that beast, or even spearing the fish, which was cool, but not needed, the communication with Maz leading to the Master Codebreaker who they never even used, etc., etc.), they could have scrapped those and given us more of them. However, I would trade that for more of Luke.

I think I have come to terms with Luke's death scene. It is actually a good scene overall. What I don't like is they never gave Luke enough to show us before that. He got one fight scene, and even that was a force projection and not real. I would have liked to see Luke whoop some a$$ one more time. Here's hoping for a Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight standalone film sometime :fighting0003:

I am sure I am in the minority in this respect, but among the prequels and the sequels, the movie that I came out of the most pumped after the first viewing was actually TPM!! I think the final duel with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Darth Maul made up for so much for me at the time, and I was only 23, so I didn't totally hate the Jar Jar and kid Anakin stuff. I am in complete agreement with JJ, though, that after multiple viewings, I and II just don't hold up, especially, for me, II - I can barely tolerate most of it due to the crappy romance. I would rather watch VII than either of those, and I expect VIII will rank higher for me, as well.

It is fun to see how different our tastes can be, though - we are all huge Star Wars fans, but the same scene can be loved or hated - many have commented on Luke and Yoda's scene being their favourite (it was one of mine, except for the burning of the tree), while others (Cmdr Bacara, for example) found it really annoying. And then there's Napseeker, who seems to have the complete opposite view from JJ on just about everything! It's so hard to please us fans! :scared0008:

It seems to me that most of us liked Rogue One, whereas it has been very mixed for VII and VIII, which I think just goes to show that it is our attachment to the characters of the OT and our desire for how we think they should be used (as opposed to how they have been) that clouds our ability to enjoy it - Rogue One had very little involvement of established characters, so we were just happy for the story and characters to go wherever the director wanted to take us, and we enjoyed the ride. I still think (or maybe just hope) that this is why I will really like IX, as the expectations on OT characters will be nearly irrelevant, as they will mostly be dead.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: dangerlinto on December 16, 2017, 01:11:23 PM
The Leia scene needed something else - tough to do when Fisher passed though.

Blue Milk Luke was 10 seconds of my life I will never get back. 

Phasma was unnecessary.

I liked Snoke.  Annoyed that we never found out who he was.

I liked Luke (other than Blue Milk).  Hamill did a great job.  I also liked Yoda - I can see where other's didn't. 

R2 playing the holo leia message was the best moment in the movie.

But I want to complain about one thing and make you think about it

If this movie was *really* daring, take all of Vice Admiral Holdo's lines, and give them to a still living Admiral Ackbar. Everything from stunning the group to sacrificing himself.

Movie is so much better IMHO if Ackbar doesn't just die off-screen.  Sorry Laura Dern, you were cute but the wrong choice by a mile.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 16, 2017, 02:11:29 PM
About 5 minutes after the movie ended I did want to see it again to make sure I hated it! lol After sleeping on it for a night I knew there was just too much wrong with it, and I thought to myself, I'm not going back to support it, I 'm not buying any merch from the film and as much as it pains me to not have the full collection on Blu-ray I won't buy it unless its second hand or clearance lol

I don't disagree.  The "see it three times" thing was a bit of a tongue and cheek way of saying a bad Star Wars movie will still make big bucks.

One of the things not sitting well with me about TLJ is that Star Wars is a classic good vs evil story.  Dark side.  Light side.  Both powerful.  Very powerful.  TLJ introduced Canto Blight and the idea the good and bad guys are all just puppets of arm dealers.  It could be argued it's just the Resistance and First Order and not the Empire and Rebellion, but still, it lessens the primary rivalry and introduces an unnecessary baddie.     

In Star Wars, the good rises to fight the bad.  Will anyone rise to fight these arms dealers? 

(On a side note, I didn't mind when this idea was addressed in Iron Man 3.  I actually liked that movie.  But it doesn't, in my opinion, work in a Star Wars movie.  Maybe an episode of Rebels, but not a movie. And you shouldn't add a new out of nowhere big "bad guy" in the second to last movie of a nine movie story when they're not needed.  The fight between the Dark side and Light side is enough.  And, yes, if they're purposely stirring the pot or letting it be stirred in order to profit off civil war and the tragedy it creates, they are a "big" baddies.) 

Like jedijay, I don't plan on getting the DVD. 

Before the movie, I bought a 5poa Rose, but that was based on price matching it for $2.97 (and a good idea she'd be a main character).  I have no plans on picking up any more TLJ figures - even Jedi Exile Luke (I already have a Jedi Master Luke though).  Drop the price to under $5 and I'll consider it, but it's not a done deal by a long shot. 

Before the movie, I saw a salt planet speeder for just under $23.  Seemed like a good deal (though I passed). I don't think even a $10 price tag would inspire a consideration of a purchase now. 

Before the movie, I planned on grabbing a playskool TIE Silencer for my kids.  Now, not so much.  I still might, but the price has definitely gotta be right.  It is a cool looking ship after all.

Before the movie, I could put on TFA and enjoy it as a fun ride set in the Star War universe.  (Plus, I really like Ford's Han.  I didn't know what an old Han would even be like, but when I saw Ford in TFA, I thought he nailed it.) Now, I don't care to watch it again any time soon.

Before the movie, I thought Kylo Ren's mask was bad guy cool.  TLJ told me it's not bad guy cool.  It's a sign of weakness.  Masks are one of my favourite things in the Star War universe so I didn't like seeing one of the better ones being, in my view, put down.  It's tough seeing a mask that's been ridiculed (and the film does nothing to counter that ridicule) as bad guy cool anymore.

I'm hopeful E9 will make things better.

The reaction is interesting.  On RT 93% of critics like it.  Audiences - 57%. 

I'm interested in seeing how the toy aisles empty - or don't - in the following weeks.  That will help tell me if audiences actually like TLJ.  After all, Disney can please movie critics all day long, but at the end of that day the stockholders will have their say.  And they want profit.  Not praise.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 02:28:17 PM
The "see it 3x" thing IS a joke, but honestly I do feel I need to see it 2-3x before I can form an opinion. AOTC - loved it the first time, it wasn't until viewing 3 that the true nature of the bad started to outweigh the good.

ROJ - first viewing as a Gr5 student I remember being disappointed in them using "another" Death Star, but that was quickly rectified by them providing the full hour-long climax that was needed to close that story properly on all the open fronts.

It's not abnormal or unusual for me to feel uncomfortable after the first viewing. I'm going to try & drag the wife for a show tonight & I'll see if it has settled after that.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 16, 2017, 02:50:29 PM
Wow...I was shock to see that after 81,484 people viewed this film only 57% liked it. Disney gets a "D" grade for this film.   

Surprising that it would score so low considering the valuable information it provided us with.  For example : if you look in a mirror you will see your reflection or how to milk an alien properly. This is ground breaking cinema.

I agree with nap seeker, this is best Star Wars movie that I have ever seen, in the last 2 days.   Honestly it is.  This movie makes me excited for the re-release of the Star Wars Holiday Special from 1978.

All joking aside, I am looking forward to seeing it again.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 16, 2017, 03:02:21 PM
Replying to all but not quoting anyone specific.  I don't want to mess with Canadian Jedi again. :happy0025:

A few more things after letting the dust settle in my mind some:

I can't help but notice, TFA's biggest criticism was it was just a re-hash.  Did nothing new.  Only copied ANH.  Now the biggest gripe about TLJ is it's too different.  It's not like the other Star Wars.  This alludes to what brianakarobin said about us old guards letting go of the original characters.  We all had a vision/image of how they should have been treated, and it didn't happen. 

Another big criticism is Snoke being sliced up.  We knew nothing about him.  (That's going to be fleshed out in books/comics now.)  That's not a fair criticism from anyone over 35.  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now??  Kylo did what Vader couldn't!  Vader pleaded for Luke to join him and take out the Emperor, because Vader couldn't do it himself.  Kylo took out Snoke, and then pleaded for Rey to join him.  Kylo is turning/turned into a badder dude than Vader.

Rey's parents.  Not gonna comment much on this.  I hope they leave it they way it is.  Darkness rises and light to meet it.  Rey doesn't have to be a daughter of a Jedi, Obi-Wan, Yoda, these were great Jedi without a [known] lineage.  She doesn't have to be a Skywalker.   

The kid at the end.  If you read The Legends of Luke Skywaker it hints about this a bit.  The legend of what happened to Luke on Crate will inspire many young (lings?) to rise. 

If you didn't catch it, Rey has the Jedi books on the Falcon right when they escape.  Finn opens a drawer to get a blanket and there they are. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 16, 2017, 03:06:56 PM
The "see it 3x" thing IS a joke, but honestly I do feel I need to see it 2-3x before I can form an opinion. AOTC - loved it the first time, it wasn't until viewing 3 that the true nature of the bad started to outweigh the good.

When I finished AOTC for the first time I sat there and said to my brother "That was just as good as Return of the Jedi."  (I was in love with Padme too)

All these years later I actually find TPM better than AOTC.  I love Christopher Lee as Dooku though. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 16, 2017, 04:00:35 PM
  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 

In Episode 7, we meet new "Dark Side" users - though that term is not used, they act like what we've known.  One of them, we're told was a Jedi in training.  The other - nothing.  But we can see he's old.  Where was he during the events of E1-E6?  Who trained him?  Is he Sith?  If not, what?

I thought the same thing you did about the Emperor and if this was a new Star Wars and not Ep7, I don't think it'd bug me too much.  But, as it is, it does.  Am I to believe that bad guys powerful in the Force can just randomly pop up with ready made armies in the Star War universe?  And if Light rises to meet Dark, who did the Force rise up to meet Snoke?  Rey balances Ren... 

Is Snoke perhaps the balance to Luke? 

Just spit balling here (didn't expect to go this way), but is that a reasonable possibility? 

Maybe Snoke is just some rich old dude (gold robe and wealth to buy a fleet from Canto Bight arms dealers) who the Force chose to balance itself against Luke so, like Rey, he's untrained, but powerful.

I could perhaps accept that.  Rey's not a Jedi.  Snoke's not a Sith.  The explanation of Light and Dark sides of the Force needing to balance one another is given in the movie and we know it can happen because of "no training needed" Rey.  That would actually be good enough for me. 

But I want something.  I want some kind of reasonable movie based explanation of where this powerful in the Force evil guy came from. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 04:16:12 PM
Mulling it over for a bit now, the biggest disappointment is the way Luke was written, I know what I wanted to see, and to be honest we deserved to see the old heroic Luke in action, after nearly 30 years of waiting to see it again Disney teased us with it at the end of TFA, then we so eagerly and patiently waitied to see a true hero, a jedi legend a childhood idol take one more crack at saving the galaxy and fight the dark side, but , we got a force projection and a moof milker hermit.

Disney made me want it, they recruited, Ford, Fisher Hamill, Daniels, Oz, even James Earl Jones in Rogue One, then left us on a cliff for two years, if they were going to just make up what ever they wanted and not stick to the true nature of the characters then why even bother putting them in?? Why go back and get the original cast, and make them ridiculous??

Luke Skywalker milked a sea monster....... 

 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 04:34:32 PM
I hope some employees of Disney reads these boards, star wars is a 40 year old institution, with established characters, it has fans spending fortunes on it, they are passionate about it, countless books, films and incredible enthusiastic fans. Unfortunately I now feel like I have to say it, here goes.

Dear Disney:

Don't put guardians of the galaxy in episode 9
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 04:37:53 PM
I thought Luke kicked tremendous butt by being able to cast his form across the galaxy. I loved that. To me, Yoda should have taken a similar tact to beat Dooku easily in EpII... I never understood why he went toe to toe. Luke's story I'm good with. It's Leia spacewalk & them not writing her out of the story properly I can't resolve yet.

Snoke - the visual dictionary confirms he is NOT Sith, but provides little else. Coming soon to a book store near you I'd have to assume, which I'm not satisfied with personally. The needed to give more.

Phasma - I'm really wondering if bringing her back was a joke. We'll have to see if it happens again in IX now.... You killed Phasma, you bastard!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jedijaynumber1 on December 16, 2017, 04:52:37 PM
I thought Luke kicked tremendous butt by being able to cast his form across the galaxy. I loved that. To me, Yoda should have taken a similar tact to beat Dooku easily in EpII... I never understood why he went toe to toe. Luke's story I'm good with. It's Leia spacewalk & them not writing her out of the story properly I can't resolve yet.

Indeed Obiwan taught him well, but wouldn't you have just about died and gone to heaven if Luke with force ghost Yoda watching behind him lifted that x wing out of the water, flew in to confront Kylo, "for real" the proxy fight felt like a slap to Luke, I remember thinking in the theater, when luke faded away, did he just end it himself? force suicide? at this point, I wonder
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 16, 2017, 05:07:21 PM
Just got back from a second screening with my kids and...I can't explain it...I'm honestly baffled by my response...but now I really really like it. Not kidding. I think TFA had me guessing they were going in a very specific direction and they ended up going elsewhere that I was not expecting.

This time around, much of what I found jarring was of course no longer so.

I'd still love to know more about Snoke but at the same time I realize he was in many ways there as something for Kylo to reject on "the other side of the fence"...he rejects both mentor/masters, he rejects both the dark/light. And perhaps this is what he thought Vader was all about. He was never really a Jedi and never really a Sith fully. Or that he was able to straddle the line and not go Palpatine level dark.

And despite the Canto Bight stuff (which is the weakest part of the film IMO), I find it quite fun and intriguing. Especially the "special philosophy" that seems to be motivating Kylo that I feel like I only fully get while watching the film.

I started to feel this was more of a ROTJ film than ESB for sure. The silly didn't feel quite as silly this time around. And the audience I was with this time was more into it, cheering and laughing and such.

I hope I don't end up hating it again on a 3rd viewing! I'm going to wait a while for that.

Anyone catch the books Rey has taken aboard the Falcon? In that drawer she opens at the end to get something out of? Clever too that if you watch Luke's legs during the Kylo battle, he makes no traces in the salt mineral. They even deliberately give us a shot of Kylo shifting his weight and make a mark in close up!

And I can't be sure but I thought the kid who took the broom at the end actually has it jump into his hand a few inches...but I might have just blinked. Did he use the Force?
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 06:09:50 PM
I asked the same thing & YES, he used the Force. My theory is that Rian Johnston planted the seed for his own trilogy right there. Time will tell.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Cmdr Bacara on December 16, 2017, 06:34:19 PM
Has George Lucas passed any comment on TLJ?  I know he didn't really like TFA, not sure if that's because they didn't use his ideas for it or not.

Also did anyone else notice the secret Jedi texts from the tree Yoda burned were in a drawer on the Falcon at the end (Finn opens and grabs something and you can clearly see the beige spined book)
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 16, 2017, 07:58:52 PM
George said it was "beautifully made", which I took to be him saying something quasi-positive that Disney wouldn't blanch at & ask him to retract.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 16, 2017, 09:25:27 PM
  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 


The first time we hear the word Sith spoken on screen is in TPM.  Not in the OT.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 16, 2017, 10:45:30 PM
Just one more comment before I head off to watch it again....

Episode IX doesn't have to directly follow TLJ time wise.  I think it will be set several years later.  They could even start with Leia's funeral. 

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 16, 2017, 11:05:14 PM
  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 


The first time we hear the word Sith spoken on screen is in TPM.  Not in the OT.

Agreed. 

I'm looking at the whole 1-6 story.  That's the story leading into E7 and not just E4-6.  In E8, Luke even mentions Sidious by name and the Jedi's failure to stop him.  Which, from a certain point of view, sums up the story of E1-3 quite succinctly. So the prequels and their lessons about the nature of the Sith are very much a part of the story leading into E8 which means the Emperor doesn't need to be called Darth Sidious or referred to as a Sith for those terms to "exist" in the OT.  So even though the term Sith may not be used in the OT, in the context of E8, it doesn't matter as the Emperor of the OT is understood by Luke to be Darth Sidious, one of the two Sith Lords allowed according to the rules of the Sith.     

Regarding the Emperor in the OT, I'm fairly sure he's mentioned on the blockade runner.  An officer is concerned news about Leia's capture getting out to the senate could create sympathy for the rebellion and Vader basically says to not worry as the Emperor is going to get rid of the senate. 

I'll have to watch again to hear exactly what's said, but fairly sure he's mentioned in 4, then, of course, shown (via hologram in 5), and then we meet him in 6.

Either way, in Star Wars (ANH) we're dropped into a story where the Empire exists.  We know Vader's not the leader so meeting a leader later on isn't surprising to me.  I don't need a backstory for why the Empire has a leader.  (If the Empire didn't have a leader, well, that I would probably want to understand.)

When the prequels came along, they showed how the Empire came into existence and how that leader rose to power. 

Flash forward to TFA, we're dropped into a story where, like ANH, there's a battle going on.  The problem for me is I've seen the previous chapter and there's no hint of the Empire surviving. The Rebels won.  Statues were toppled.  Fireworks enjoyed.  Yet this new bad guy army dresses very much like the Empire, flies ships almost exactly like them, and talks (Kylo Ren at least) about them (well, about one of them any way).  How?  Why?

E1-3 explain how we got to the Emperor in E4.  E4-6 do not explain how we got to the Supreme Leader in E7.

If the First Order looked nothing like the Empire, I could buy into them being an entirely new villain. (A force from beyond the Outer Rim maybe.)  The Empire is dead and they (like classic villains) want to rule the universe so they take hold of an opportunity to do so.  In that case, like the Empire in 4-6, I'm not curious why they have a leader.  They should have a leader (or leadership council).  And I'm not in need of a leader backstory as he's a bad guy doing what a lot of standard villains do - looking to rule everything.   

Thing is the FO is basically a carbon copy of the Empire.  Why?  I understand that from a marketing point of view, but the movie hasn't explained why.  Why do they dress like the Empire?  Did they find unused Empire gear and went with it to save money?  Did they want to wear similar outfits to put fear in the Republic (oh no, we thought the Empire was dead, but it's not!)?  Is the whole First Order just Kylo Ren on a bigger scale (people who want to be like something they admire)?  Or maybe the First Order is the Empire; created in secret by loyalists who waited for the right time for revenge.  Other than "antagonist", I don't really know who they are; why they do what they do.  Kylo Ren, yes.  But the FO, no. 

The FO is aware of the Empire.  Snoke leads the FO.  Where was he for the events of E1-6 - the rise and fall of the Empire?  Why are we only hearing about him now?  Was he a fan of Palpatine? A rival who couldn't match him so he stayed hidden?  Did he work for the Empire?  Was he a rebel or someone in the republic who felt betrayed and wanted revenge? 

Why has he copied the Empire? 

I think his ship was the first thing I've seen that I couldn't connect to the Empire visually, but everything else is a copy. 
   
So, ya, I want to know more about the origins of the FO and it's leader. 

In TLJ, we're told they buy their weapons.  How do they afford to do that?  Where's Snoke getting all this cash from that he can build an army by himself to rival any threat from the entire republic?  (And, if he has all this cash, why does he want to spend it on conquering the republic?)  Or maybe he didn't do it by himself.  I don't know.  Maybe a book has told why, but, I don't want to have to buy a book to understand a movie.  A well made movie (or movie series) shouldn't need outside study material to be understood. 

So, ya, in short, for me, because of where Snoke first appears in the over all story, I find the amount of info given about him so far to be insufficient.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Bespin-81 on December 16, 2017, 11:17:55 PM
Just one more comment before I head off to watch it again....

Episode IX doesn't have to directly follow TLJ time wise.  I think it will be set several years later.  They could even start with Leia's funeral.

I think you're right.

I don't know how they'll handle Leia, but suspect some time will have passed allowing for the rise of Force sensitive Resistance fighters across the galaxy. 

Right now, I'm leaning towards the story of the Saga being changed into what Luke talked about.  The Jedi basically monopolized the Force.  This was arrogant and lead to the Sith taking over the galaxy. (E1-3).  This lead to pain and suffering (E4-6).  To avoid this happening again, the Force must be accessible for everyone and not just the Jedi (E7-9). 

I'm not saying I like this.  Just guessing what the new story line will be as I suspect a new story uniting all the episodes together is needed (as it can no longer be the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin or the hero journey of Luke) and this one could work based on what I saw in E8.

On a positive note, if anyone remembers fan trailers for E1, you might recall one that added sabers to a battle scene from Braveheart or some such movie.  Maybe in E9, we'll get that.  E9 could be quite epic. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 17, 2017, 03:20:08 AM
Just one more comment before I head off to watch it again....

Episode IX doesn't have to directly follow TLJ time wise.  I think it will be set several years later.  They could even start with Leia's funeral.

I personally was never against the idea of putting in a CGI Leia for eps9, so long as they spend a huge amount of time to make it look real; but if they aren't going that route (which is what Kathleen Kennedy confirmed) then yeah, start eps9 many, many years later and with Leia's funeral. It will mark the full transition to the next generation where they carry the story almost completely (but with obvious cameos by Force Luke, R2, Chewie, 3PO...)

It was always a huge mistake to end TFA with a cliffhanger that required eps8 to pick up immediately from eps7. SW films have always built in some passage of time between each film so that you can have EU stories that chronicle what happened during this period... we could've had old Luke and old Han go on some adventures between 7 and 8 for example... for 8 to 9, allowing for years to pass between the two films will at least restore the proper way that breaks between films should've been handled. We can have more adventures of old Leia trying to build the new rebellion until her funeral at the open of eps9.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 17, 2017, 03:36:14 AM
It is fun to see how different our tastes can be, though - we are all huge Star Wars fans, but the same scene can be loved or hated - many have commented on Luke and Yoda's scene being their favourite (it was one of mine, except for the burning of the tree), while others (Cmdr Bacara, for example) found it really annoying. And then there's Napseeker, who seems to have the complete opposite view from JJ on just about everything! It's so hard to please us fans! :scared0008:

I exist to be the anti-matter to JJreason's hopes and dreams :)

But seriously, I find it hilarious that the apparent majority of fans dislike TLJ whereas I am overjoyed by what I got.  I read some of their comments about why they didn't like TLJ in various talkbacks across the net and my first reaction was "Ah, so now you guys know how I feel about TFA..."   My friend and I once got into a polite argument about why he loved TFA and why I hated it; he acknowledged the various flaws about TFA that I pointed out but in the end, said that it reminded him of Star Wars, of being in the SW universe again (after the failure of the prequels to capture that feeling) and because of that he could overlook the flaws and rate the film as enjoyable. 

That is exactly the same for me for TLJ: there are flaws about TLJ (the Canto Bight scenes and Finn's entire arc bordered on pointless and are easily the dullest moments of the film... DJ and Holdo and Paige all turned out to be smaller roles than anyone thought, but I did like that DJ turned out to be the anti-Lando and that his betrayal really devastated the Resistance forces). But this film did capture that feeling of being in the SW universe again, and I had no issues with the porg humor or Luke drinking blue milk, or how Luke died (I dreaded a JJAbrams-type lazy homage where he might just stand there and let Kylo swing at him, and evaporate into a ghost... ugh, you know that's what he would've done...).   

I LOVED that Leia finally got to use the Force at last, that spacewalk didn't come across as bad or awkward at all!  She was about to die, she either found the Force within her (in kind of an "adrenaline rush" that happens when you are in mortal danger) or it found her, and made it to safety.  Those who wished that she had died then and there, I say no way!  We already missed out on a Luke and Han reunion in TFA, were we really going to lose out on a Luke and Leia reunion too?  No EFFING way. I'm glad they kept it as is - that moment when they are reunited in person (sort of) was really needed, and if Luke was going to sacrifice himself for anyone, it'd be to protect Leia and her rebellion. He died a hero (and let's not forget, he humiliated the new Supreme Leader in front of all his forces!  Nice!)
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 17, 2017, 03:47:50 AM
If this movie was *really* daring, take all of Vice Admiral Holdo's lines, and give them to a still living Admiral Ackbar. Everything from stunning the group to sacrificing himself.

Movie is so much better IMHO if Ackbar doesn't just die off-screen.  Sorry Laura Dern, you were cute but the wrong choice by a mile.

I thought the same thing - that Ackbar could've been used in place of Holdo. However I do think there was a reason why they did not: the voice actor for Ackbar passed away not that long after TFA.  I suppose they could've used the actor who did Admiral Raddus in R1 (the voice actually did seem pretty close...) but perhaps it was decided not to rankle fans by momentarily turning Ackbar into an antagonistic figure (and then killing him off).

The realization of Ackbar being among the dead/sucked out into space, didn't hit home for me until one of the characters said that all of the Resistance leadership had been killed in the bombing (I had just assumed Ackbar was in the bathroom at the time, far from the bridge). I mumbled to myself, "But... but, Hasbro just put out a pricey 6" 2-pack with Ackbar in it...!!!! He can't be dead!"  So RIP Ackbar and Luke.  One of you gets to come back as a ghost in the next film, the other one will get a MonCalamari cruiser named after them in eps9...
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 17, 2017, 04:19:18 AM
  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 


The first time we hear the word Sith spoken on screen is in TPM.  Not in the OT.

Agreed. 


Regarding the Emperor in the OT, I'm fairly sure he's mentioned on the blockade runner.  An officer is concerned news about Leia's capture getting out to the senate could create sympathy for the rebellion and Vader basically says to not worry as the Emperor is going to get rid of the senate. 

I'll have to watch again to hear exactly what's said, but fairly sure he's mentioned in 4, then, of course, shown (via hologram in 5), and then we meet him in 6.

Flash forward to TFA, we're dropped into a story where, like ANH, there's a battle going on.  The problem for me is I've seen the previous chapter and there's no hint of the Empire surviving. The Rebels won.  Statues were toppled.  Fireworks enjoyed.  Yet this new bad guy army dresses very much like the Empire, flies ships almost exactly like them, and talks (Kylo Ren at least) about them (well, about one of them any way).  How?  Why?

E1-3 explain how we got to the Emperor in E4.  E4-6 do not explain how we got to the Supreme Leader in E7.

If the First Order looked nothing like the Empire, I could buy into them being an entirely new villain. (A force from beyond the Outer Rim maybe.)  The Empire is dead and they (like classic villains) want to rule the universe so they take hold of an opportunity to do so.  In that case, like the Empire in 4-6, I'm not curious why they have a leader.  They should have a leader (or leadership council).  And I'm not in need of a leader backstory as he's a bad guy doing what a lot of standard villains do - looking to rule everything.   

Thing is the FO is basically a carbon copy of the Empire.  Why? 

The FO is aware of the Empire.

Why has he copied the Empire? 
   
So, ya, I want to know more about the origins of the FO and it's leader. 

In TLJ, we're told they buy their weapons.  How do they afford to do that?  Where's Snoke getting all this cash from that he can build an army by himself to rival any threat from the entire republic? 

So, ya, in short, for me, because of where Snoke first appears in the over all story, I find the amount of info given about him so far to be insufficient.

I'm not gonna quote your whole post because it's as long as a Tom Clancy novel.  I will answer some of it though. 

It's actually Tarkin that mentions the Emperor first.  He tells the Death Star round table that the Emperor has dissolved the council (Senate). I can't remember it being mentioned on the Runner.  But I'm wrong a lot, just ask my wife (or her mother).

My point was, we didn't get the Emperors back story for 15 years, and no one was asking these questions. 

OK, so here is what we know about the First Order.  They are what was left over from the Empire.  After the Rebellion finally won and formed the New Republic - the remnants of the Empire fled to the Unknown Regions.  As the years went by, The New Republic began to divide into two parties, the Centrists (they believed in a strong singular leader - like Palpatine) and the Populists (more of a democratic theology).  Many of the Centrists worlds were colluding and funneling money into the First Order.  This allowed them to rise to power.  While it has not yet been confirmed, it is believed that Supreme Leader Snoke is from the Unknown Regions.   

If you want to dive into more details, you would need to read the Aftermath trilogy and Bloodline.  That's the great thing about the Star Wars universe now.  It's all synced together across all mediums. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 17, 2017, 04:21:03 AM
Upon second viewing I have to confirm that the milk from the Sea Cow was green, not blue. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: ambasah on December 17, 2017, 10:41:24 AM
I saw this yesterday with the family.

best part: the screen and theatre are dead silent as the last rebel ship does the "suicide light-speed thing" to save everyone...and in that silence, my 5 year old son shouts out "BOOM!", followed by some chuckles from the audience. 

and that is what it is about for me. being able to share my love of star wars with my kids.

Having said that, I liked the movie but it had a lot of "wtf?" moments:

yoda decides to show up NOW!?!
luke's saber was broken into 2 pieces...but I guess Kylo thought he had a new one for their "battle"?
why not just tell Poe the plan? that hole mutiny thing was dumb.
almost no screen time for R2!
all-powerful snoke can't "feel" what kylo is doing ?...or the fact that the saber is moving?
the Maz thing was dumb.
phasma under-utilized again and a cheap death.
rey almost instantly being able to do all those "force" things...with no logical explanation. How long did it take the greatest jedi of all time (Luke) to do half of what she was capable of?

my biggest gripe is what happened to Luke. My greatest childhood hero reduced to an old fart. His "redemption" was far from that in my view. and the way he died? boooo!

glad to have more star wars, but man...I was hoping for so much more.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 17, 2017, 11:21:50 AM
Amabasah I think I felt pretty much the same way about those points on my first viewing and now, on the second, I'm good with almost all of them.

Yoda seemed so stupid to me, but upon a second viewing, it felt really like the Yoda of ESB, the Yoda that could be Zen mastery about the way he taught and the idea that Luke's failure became what would teach him...brilliant. The fact he kept silent for so long (or at least we assume he did) may also have been a part of the lesson.

Has there been a close up of the saber Luke used on Crait? Was it actually the same style as the one that broke? I'd be surprised if it was but perhaps it was but I could see Kylo's rage not letting him question it in the heat of the moment.

Poe is a pilot, he has been demoted, Holdo is actually smarter than he is and knows what she needs to do to see the plan through and not give into his impulsive "let me at 'em" attitude. Poe learns his lesson when he breaks off from the final fight. Plus, the plan was far from rock solid. If there was even the remotest chance of a traitor in their midst or any monitoring or the chance that hot shot Poe might try to speed up the plan and expose it to the FO...she was in command, she was the one responsible for giving the plan every chance it needed. And Leia was also in the know I believe. She was showing true military discipline by not panicking and spewing the plan out for every pilot-to-janitor to hear IMO.

R2's almost non-presence was not the best but in some ways it was enough. And obviously they are trying to get BB-8 to be the new droid for these characters.

Snoke's ego got in his way, his overconfidence. Plus I think it hints at Kylo's own power, his ability to use that Skywalker "magic" to outwit his enemies. It is somewhat comparable to Palpatine not feeling Vader's change of heart...he was so sure of himself that he let his guard down. I will admit it could have been handled better but I'm quite fine with it now.

Maz was ok, but probably along with much of Canto Bight, the weakest for me even upon a second viewing. I had to run to the washroom with my  youngest right before Finn got zapped by Rose and missed the lead into that scene. Who was it that knew to contact her? Finn I hope! Because I was under the impression it was Poe. Did we ever know that Poe knew (of) her?

I'm pretty sure Phasma is dead but there is always the chance she survives once again perhaps badly burned? But I think she served her purpose of being a thorn in the side for Finn and he ended her. She gets about as much of a send off as Fett did really.

Rey awoke to the Force in a different way than Luke did. Luke seemed to be full of self doubt whereas Rey seemed to connect with it in the heat of the moment in TFA and never lost that connection. She only wanted more guidance. Luke was never set up to be that "raw untamed power" source like both Kylo and Rey seem to be. And Rey seems very open to just "going there" as Luke pointed out when she went straight to the dark with no hesitation. My gut says she's just different than Luke, less mental hang ups.

And on a second viewing...I absolutely love where they took Luke. I mean honestly, I think we've all reshaped Luke over the years into something he never was. Luke was barely a Jedi before he partied on Endor. He basically  said he would not fight and took a passive stand against the Emperor. Until he freaked out, almost went dark and then...once again threw down his laser sword. His dad saved him based on Luke's decision to not go dark to defeat the dark side itself and the example he showed for his dad was more powerful than any use of the Force. After the end of ROTJ? The EU gave us stuff but we know all of that is no longer canon. So Luke then going on to try to teach and then fail and then go into a spiral is human and believable to me. The fact though that even as he cut himself off from the Force (is this also why Yoda could not appear perhaps?) and tried to convince himself that the Jedi needed to end he still sought to understand the Force in a larger way shows that his character was still trying to find the right way through his funk! It was as if he was going through a prolonged inner conflict that Rey's arrival helped resolve...leading Yoda to appear to give him the final push towards learning his lesson.

And my god! That final scene echoing Luke's young self looking to the stars, to the suns and dreaming to come full circle to see him realizing that his youthful self was probably, in its own clumsy way, pushing him to find the good path was so incredibly moving (on a second viewing) I had tears...I admit it...I had tears.

Though its a detail I'm wondering if we're going to get all kinds of new ship designs next film since, as far as we know, the Resistance has been whittled down to what? 40 people and the Falcon? No more x-wings? Or will they find another abandoned Rebel outpost with that same tech? Or old (but newly designed by Disney) tech like the skimmers?

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 17, 2017, 01:46:28 PM
It gets better upon the 2nd viewing. 

Rey is the one that says her parents are nobodies.  Not Kylo.

Luke's final scene is way more powerful the 2nd time around.

For some reason when Finn says "Oh, they hate that ship", it makes me laugh out loud. 

If Phasma is JJ's baby, he may bring her back for IX. 

The porgs are not overdone, and they are great for the kids (and moms).

The Canto Bight scene is still, meh.  I think it goes back to what JJ said about Maz's Castle, you gotta have a cantina scene in Star Wars.  And this was RJ's way of trying to think out of the box. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: bob on December 17, 2017, 03:03:07 PM
the Casino planet thing felt kinda prequally to me. the way the cars and stuff in the casino look feels like a nod to the prequels, i didnt mind cause everyone wants to mostly avoid the prequels it seems. the creature things felt like filler. its not bad but i suppose that whole part was filler for the most part.

 The acting is pretty good in this. Adam Driver delivers again and so did Daisy Ridley. Mark Hamill was good too but sometimes i felt liike he was overdoing it a little. i will go see it again in theatres for sure.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 17, 2017, 04:15:24 PM
Second viewing complete & I 100 percent agree that it gets better. There are certain music albums that feel a bit weird to start but then grow on you in a big way, this movie has that potential. It felt like less time was wasted than I initially though, and I thought Poe & Finn's stories made more sense the second time - I was obviously focusing too hard on the Luke/Rey/Kylo the stuff the first time around & wanted them to hurry up & get back to that.

The space battles are absurdly good. The Crait battle is fine, but, aping  Hoth is a tough one to sell to an old fan like me. The battering ram wasn't enough of something new for it to feel like an homage, but new at the same time (btw, weird they would choose to have the walkers going left to right this time, instead of the traditional right to left). 

That being said, I'm still glad I was 100 percent happy with where they took Luke's story the first time around, I wouldn't want to be in a position where I was trying to justify things to myself.

EDITED: Bob, that's a very astute observation. The Casino DID feel like the prequels - particularly the Opera House from ROTS - to me. Excellent.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on December 17, 2017, 06:41:50 PM
I am in the same camp of really liking this on the second viewing. I didn't hate it on the first viewing, but I was just conflicted, especially with the Luke story, but various other things as per my earlier posts.

While there are still minor issues for me, I do really like the movie overall. I think it is a worthy addition to the series.

As Cashfan said, you can find out about the First Order from the books. Basically, the empire collapsed a while after ROTJ, but part of that was self-induced based on a plan put in motion by the emperor, should he die. Only a select group of the leadership were kept and went off to the unknown regions to create the First Order. While I can understand the comments about wanting to know more, I disagree that all of this should be in the films. We all loved the OT precisely because it didn't get bogged down with all of this kind of crap. The PT tried to explain every detail of the political climate, who Palpatine was, how he rose to power, etc. and we found it boring. I think they have it right this time - people can follow the movie and enjoy it as is, but if you really have an interest in finding out more, read the books.

As for the concerns about it's score on Rotten Tomatoes and that critics like it an audiences don't, I would simply point to the fact that the opening weekend is the second largest of all-time (after only TFA), and this likely will earn more at the domestic box office than any other movie besides TFA, likely in the range of $800 million (along with a billion or so worldwide). I think Disney will be quite pleased with the combination of great scores from critics and close to $2 billion in earnings.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 17, 2017, 09:47:21 PM
Critics reviews on rotten tomatoes that said they liked it:
Fanatics will love it; for the rest of us, it's a tolerably good time.

The Last Jedi should be the last Jedi. My interest died along with Hans Solo who took with him that cowboys in space humor that made the franchise so special.

Well at least on second viewing fanatics love it. :)  I have not been yet for a second viewing, I will try another theatre and hopefully fall in love with it like a few people seem to be.

I went back and looked at the rotten tomatoes ratings and I think the executives will not be ignoring the audience reviews.   The Force Awakens did very well.  The Last Jedi was going to do well because people came to see part 2.   But if the audience does not like the follow up movie... they could lose the next generation of kids who they need to carry on a successful franchise .   

TFA Critics (378 reviews) 93% liked it Audience (224,183 reviews) 88%
TLJ Critics (297 reviews) 93% liked it Audience (100,200 reviews) 56%
Thor Ragnarok Critics 92% liked Audience 88% - this is their bench mark.

Unless the next 125,000 people decide they all like it pretty hard to ignore those numbers.   

I guarantee 100% they are talking about the 56% and they are concern.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: KaleDayspring on December 17, 2017, 10:10:48 PM
Well, I saw 2/3rds of it on the IMAX before the Audio locked, and since I could only see it Saturday, I had to run to catch it again.

When asked last night at a Christmas party, I answered - I was entertained for 2.5 hours. Because if I had said what I really felt, I might have ruined it for some.

I loved it. Yes it had some flaws and so gaping holes, but overall, I loved it.

Pros
The Luke story. Right from the beginning with the saber toss, you knew there was some major indifference in him. But as he and Rey draw on one another, the story grew on me. And the "Dark Empire" Force transmission was brilliant. The final battle with Kylo was brilliant and his passing was perfect. Yes I was sad but at the same time I actually felt OK with his dying. I am hoping a force ghost Luke will be in 9. NEED a final battle Luke figure.

The Resistance plot - from 400 to 25. The losses. The struggle. It just drew you back in to loving the underdog. If they don't make a Holdo in command chair, it will be a tragedy. I was asked why things were kept secret. Who knows what spies there are there? I agree that the mutiny was a bit contrived, but it made for some great optics (Leia blasting Poe and then the raised hands)

Finn - I am glad to have him back and I really hope there is no love triangle between him Rose and Rey. I really like the Rose/Finn dynamics. They are the same characters, the janitors in the series who become heroes. You want to cheer for them.

The humor - if you had a problem with the humour, you will have missed some perfect timings. From the saber toss killing the intensity of the transition scene to the Hux call, to the Porg hitting the window. It just played some little laughs that were needed. Ryan did a far better job adding humor that George tried to do with Jar Jar in 1.

Kylo - After 7 I was totally thinking "Dude's gotta die" Half way through when everyone is thinking he's changed I thinking "Dude's gotta die" At the end, I was hoping that Hux would have walked up behind him and shot him in the head. He became the villain, not a jerk in a mask.

The Force - from Rey to Luke to Leia (a throwback to the idea that his sister is just as powerful) to Kylo to Yoda. Did anyone catch the books on the Millennium Falcon. When Finn gets a blanket for Rose, they are at the back of the drawer.

Disappointing
The bombers - Yes, I get they have a bunch of bombs but there is no weight in space. Go faster. Yes I get it was for tension but come on.

Quick Characters - From Paige to Talia to Snoke to DJ to Phasma, so many new characters (or returning who were underused) that you want to see developed and they end up dying. (OK with DJ I really hope he was offed when the cruiser hypersliced Snoke's ship). The hick on Canto Bight really pissed me off. Let's put a country bumpkin in the movie. I love that there were a great amount of characters, but it was a bit overwhelming

The Ugly
Snoke - way too easy

The pacing - oh god did it drag at times. The fuel consumption issue. "They're smaller and quicker" Fricken send out waves of Ties. 2 ties and Kylo smoked off the leadership. They're cannon fodder. Just do it.

One question. At the end, when the kid grabs the broom. Did he summon it? It looked like it kinds jumped into his hand.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 18, 2017, 12:14:27 AM
As Cashfan said, you can find out about the First Order from the books. Basically, the empire collapsed a while after ROTJ, but part of that was self-induced based on a plan put in motion by the emperor, should he die. Only a select group of the leadership were kept and went off to the unknown regions to create the First Order. While I can understand the comments about wanting to know more, I disagree that all of this should be in the films. We all loved the OT precisely because it didn't get bogged down with all of this kind of crap. The PT tried to explain every detail of the political climate, who Palpatine was, how he rose to power, etc. and we found it boring. I think they have it right this time - people can follow the movie and enjoy it as is, but if you really have an interest in finding out more, read the books.

A great way to get into the back story is to pick up Shattered Empire graphic novel.  It picks up right as ROTJ ends and is a quick fun read.


One question. At the end, when the kid grabs the broom. Did he summon it? It looked like it kinds jumped into his hand.

Yes, he is force sensitive.  That scene is supposed to be reminiscent of when Luke is gazing up at the stars in ANH believing that there is something more to his existence. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 18, 2017, 05:12:57 AM
I agree with CJ inasmuch as I'm sure they are crunching the numbers and trying to figure out why the audience reaction is what it is. I'm wondering, though, how many of us would have left ESB in 1980 completely satisfied? I remember being pissed off that it was left hanging like that.

If Rotten Tomatoes existed back then, would the greatest movie ever made have fared much better in the first week after its release? I honestly believe we are only able to appreciate ESB for what it is because of the unbelievably tidy way everything was resolved 3 years later by ROJ.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 18, 2017, 07:06:11 AM
I agree with CJ inasmuch as I'm sure they are crunching the numbers and trying to figure out why the audience reaction is what it is. I'm wondering, though, how many of us would have left ESB in 1980 completely satisfied? I remember being pissed off that it was left hanging like that.

If Rotten Tomatoes existed back then, would the greatest movie ever made have fared much better in the first week after its release? I honestly believe we are only able to appreciate ESB for what it is because of the unbelievably tidy way everything was resolved 3 years later by ROJ.

jjreason......when I first read your comment my first reaction was yea that's right, great insight jj.  

Then I started thinking about it - this can't be right I am agreeing with jj :).   I don't remember being pissed when I left ESB.  In fact I remember that I was really excited for the next movie and wow I never saw that coming, Darth Vader is Luke's Father.  It also made me go and look at the rotten tomatoes rating for Empire Stikes Back and over 1 million people have given it 97%.  Now I get that this rating is all in retrospect ie people having the ability to see all 3 movies together.  But even considering that, currently for TLJ to get a 97% rating it means the next 1,750,000 people to rate this movie would have to all say they like it.  Time will tell.... how this movie will be ultimately viewed.   We all have different taste in movies...my wife and I both like Kevin Costner's Water World - so what do I know ?
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: ambasah on December 18, 2017, 09:20:00 AM
great discussion guys...and I will go see it again.

I doubt my feelings about Luke will change, but you never know : )
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 18, 2017, 10:12:38 AM
I doubt my feelings about Luke will change, but you never know : )

Search your feelings, you know it will be more enjoyable on a second viewing :)

The more I think about it, the more I like how the climax was set up. Luke had to be a Force projection; the audience wanted a Luke vs Kylo confrontation, but the only problem is that despite Kylo's obvious skill and power, I think Luke would easily outmatch and kill Kylo in any physical duel. And storywise, it isn't Luke's job any more to be the main hero who defeats Kylo, it is Rey's. 

So by making Luke a projection who can't really lay a hand on Kylo, we can still see a confrontation of sorts, but Luke can't really defeat Kylo directly (yet he can still heroically hold him off in order to save his friends and bow out of the saga with nobility and grace).

Edit: Rian seems to be confirming that Kylo was not lying to Rey about her parents, it was genuinely what he believes too:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/reys-big-revelation-in-the-last-jedi-wasnt-a-fake-out-1821383962

Quote
“They were filthy junk traders,” Kylo Ren told her. “Sold you off for drinking money. They’re dead in a pauper’s grave in the Jakku desert. You come from nothing. You’re nothing, but not to me.”

This revelation sent some Star Wars fans reeling (though I personally loved it), and others insist it’s not actually true, that Kylo Ren was tricking her in order to secure her support. Surely, there’s something else he knows, right, something he’s keeping hidden from her so she doesn’t learn the truth about who she really is? According to The Last Jedi director Rian Johnson, nope.

“For me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth,” Johnson told Entertainment Weekly. “I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: 66jedikiller66 on December 18, 2017, 11:38:26 AM
So here is my opinion, I really did not like TFA there were certain aspects I liked and it was great seeing my childhood heroes in the roles that made them all famous again but I left the theater feeling empty inside, the same way I felt after the prequels, ROTS came close but not quite.
I don't judge acting skills too much in Star Wars movies because, let's be honest here, the acting is bad in every movie from
ANH -TLJ (the best acting I've seen in TFA and TLJ is by the actors who play Chewbacca)
The only reason the original cast's, Hamill Fisher and Ford's, acting seemed decent is because of the chemistry the 3 had together. I also think the addition of Billy Dee Williams character to the fold only enhanced it even more.
The truth to this whole situation, for me at least, has been to feel the same way I felt when I was 8 years old and saw ANH for the first time on the big screen, I remember sitting there in awe and wonderment at what I had just seen and was kind of in a trance until my Mom and sister made me leave.
Well, TLJ has finally finally made me feel that way again.
In the new trilogy I also find that the chemistry between Boyega, Ridley and Isaac electrifying as well very close to the same level as the originals.
I really love Rian Johnson's directing because there always seems to be a sense of urgency to his action scenes, even during the lagging second act I was still happy with what was going on.
Yes the Resistance fleet's never ending escape dragged on a little apparently even Poe thought so because he tried to spice it up during it.
I was genuinely excited during the battle scenes and near the end I seriously thought Fin was going to die when he tried his suicide run against the big laser battering ram.
I think the chemistry between Boyega and Tran is amazing, they had to fit love into this movie no matter what but many fans don't like the interracial aspect of Fin and Rey.
I find it very amusing that I haven't heard anyone complain about the kiss that happened between Fin and Rose and that she told him she loved him, well not exactly but you know where she was coming from.
It's pretty obvious that Disney is drifting further away from the possibility of Fin and Rey hooking up i was sad when they didn't kiss after being away from each other all we got was an unusually long hug.
The closed mindedness of many fans is incredibly sad especially when we all think we are so modern and high tech now, time to move on people we need more diversity in our times.
The funniest part about some people's opinion is that no matter how much they didn't like it they'll probably see it again and for all of you who have said they will never go see it because they are purists and they have heard bad reviews...
You should go because you can't form an opinion of your own based upon someone else's point of view.
I forgot about the most awkward part of the movie the milking of the Thala-Siren I understand why that was put in. It wasn't just to show Luke's daily schedule it was to create more talk and hype about the movie, remember even bad publicity is still good publicity.
I also would really like to see Hasbro try and market something like that in a figure could you imagine that 2 pack?
Thala-Siren with milk squirting action.
That would be so awesome.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 18, 2017, 12:48:09 PM
Sadly, I'd pay right up front. I love the creatures & try to get everyone they create in the 3.75" format.  :speechless-smiley-004:

A very interesting thing happening here is that the Force ghosts now DO be able to touch things in the real world. Rember, Yoda bonks Luke with his cane & sets fire to the tree with real-life lightning. I wonder if Luke will play a role in the final duel with Kylo from beyond the grave.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: IanToronto on December 18, 2017, 02:16:29 PM
Haven't read anything here or anywhere else....I had surgery this past Thursday and won't be able to see the movie until after December 20th.  It's been difficult....let me tell you.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 18, 2017, 06:09:06 PM
Hope you're feeling as well as can be, Ian. The movie will be there for you as soon as you're well enough to get there!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on December 19, 2017, 08:53:52 PM
Haven't read anything here or anywhere else....I had surgery this past Thursday and won't be able to see the movie until after December 20th.  It's been difficult....let me tell you.
Hope your recovery goes well. Looking forward to your comments about the movie when you see it.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on December 19, 2017, 08:58:59 PM
I agree with CJ inasmuch as I'm sure they are crunching the numbers and trying to figure out why the audience reaction is what it is. I'm wondering, though, how many of us would have left ESB in 1980 completely satisfied? I remember being pissed off that it was left hanging like that.

If Rotten Tomatoes existed back then, would the greatest movie ever made have fared much better in the first week after its release? I honestly believe we are only able to appreciate ESB for what it is because of the unbelievably tidy way everything was resolved 3 years later by ROJ.

jjreason......when I first read your comment my first reaction was yea that's right, great insight jj.  

Then I started thinking about it - this can't be right I am agreeing with jj :).   I don't remember being pissed when I left ESB.  In fact I remember that I was really excited for the next movie and wow I never saw that coming, Darth Vader is Luke's Father.  It also made me go and look at the rotten tomatoes rating for Empire Stikes Back and over 1 million people have given it 97%.  Now I get that this rating is all in retrospect ie people having the ability to see all 3 movies together.  But even considering that, currently for TLJ to get a 97% rating it means the next 1,750,000 people to rate this movie would have to all say they like it.  Time will tell.... how this movie will be ultimately viewed.   We all have different taste in movies...my wife and I both like Kevin Costner's Water World - so what do I know ?
I think this is apples and oranges. Since Rotten Tomatoes didn't exist for over 30 years after ESB, everyone is rating it in retrospect. So, to compare, you would have to eliminate ALL TLJ reviews for the next 30 years, and only count those that start coming in after that :scared0008:
I agree with JJ here. None of us can likely say with complete certainty what we thought after the first viewing of ESB. I can say for sure that it was not my favourite for many years, likely (if only subconsciously) due to the fact that the rebels get their butts handed to them all movie. However, because it is so well done, but also because ROTJ ties up all the loose threads that were left hanging and bothered us about ESB, we can look back at it as the all-time classic it is.
Now, I am not saying we will be able to do the same with TLJ, but only that we should give it a chance, and hold out until episode 9 for a final verdict.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 19, 2017, 09:12:23 PM
Ian:

Can not be easy being a super fan and you can't see the movie.  Hope you get well soon.   Then you can join the rest of gang and tell us what you think of the movie.   :artoo:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 19, 2017, 10:56:46 PM
Has anybody read the negative reviews on rotten tomatoes?   Man, am I ever glad to have Snowtroopers to discuss the movie.   The reason it is getting 55% is there are a lot of very mad people  :mad0177:, giving it 1/2 to 1 star.  They are out right angry.   >:( .   And they really do not like Rose.  Hopefully Ron Howard will be able to get the haters back on side with Solo.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 20, 2017, 12:03:25 AM
They can hate all they want, I loved Luke's story and that's more than enough for me to enjoy this movie. They let the dry & witty Mark shine through.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jmac on December 20, 2017, 09:48:06 AM
At my first viewing, I was disappointed, after my second viewing I liked it a lot better. I really don't get why people would be angry about the movie though. Yes, there were some odd things in there, but it is just a fantasy movie. No injustice was done to any real people, apart from maybe spending a little money on a movie that they didn't like. I think a big part of the problem is many people live a life of relative ease and have a feeling of entitlement. When things are not going perfectly their way, even in areas that affect their real life in no way whatsoever, they get angry and look for someone to blame. Anyway, I'm glad that the reviews are a lot more level headed at Snowtroopers, and by the way, I thought Rose was one of the best parts of the movie!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: ambasah on December 20, 2017, 09:49:23 AM
did you guys watch the Jimmy Kimmel star wars special he had recently? I saw it on repeat yesterday. Loved how he called out the director for not including Billy Dee.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 20, 2017, 01:41:15 PM
At my first viewing, I was disappointed, after my second viewing I liked it a lot better. I really don't get why people would be angry about the movie though. Yes, there were some odd things in there, but it is just a fantasy movie. No injustice was done to any real people, apart from maybe spending a little money on a movie that they didn't like. I think a big part of the problem is many people live a life of relative ease and have a feeling of entitlement. When things are not going perfectly their way, even in areas that affect their real life in no way whatsoever, they get angry and look for someone to blame. Anyway, I'm glad that the reviews are a lot more level headed at Snowtroopers, and by the way, I thought Rose was one of the best parts of the movie!

Yeah, I remember on my first viewing, even though I was disappointed (not anymore!!!) that I wasn't going to go on and on about it. It was just a movie. Maybe not for me but still just a movie. The OT and my growing up with it is one era, one experience, one thing that is a part of me. Why does everything SW, especially everything coming out years later and made by everyone but George Lucas, need to be perfect or throw me into a fit of nerd rage? I mean, I even had to come to terms with this reality with the prequels and they were made by the Maker himself! Different times, different cultural landscape, different cinematic landscape, and I was different too as were the years growing with them. To expect a 40 something to experience something on par with that in this era of media saturation and to do so with an adult mind and expect to get that OT vibe instantaneously when it took years of living with it to establish that kind of deep connection? Is just so odd an expectation.

And then there's the petition to remove the film from...I guess canon and redo it? Which is so sad it is hilarious. I mean, the number of people amongst those on rebelscum who are loving the idea of the petition are also those who often take jabs at anti-Trump types who scream at the sky or call people SJWs! When those people are actually railing against someone who has their possibly insanely driven finger on the nuclear button!

It is the angry SW nerd's version of screaming at the sky. I've got a new term for them anyway! SWJWs!  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 20, 2017, 01:42:23 PM
Has anybody read the negative reviews on rotten tomatoes?   Man, am I ever glad to have Snowtroopers to discuss the movie.   The reason it is getting 55% is there are a lot of very mad people  :mad0177:, giving it 1/2 to 1 star.

TLJ has gotten a 55% audience review because Rotten Tomatoes apparently got "hacked" and there's a disgruntled fan who has been biasing the votes towards the negative side. We'll see in time how fans feel about the movie, being the middle child in the trilogy can be a difficult spot...
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 20, 2017, 10:39:32 PM
Are you sure about that... sounds like fake news put out by Disney.   
I actually started reading through several posts - not sure how one person could hack and write all those different post.  Mind you, I did not read the 100,000 post that are there.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 20, 2017, 10:44:19 PM
I think the fact that not everyone loves it right off the hop is interesting. Some people might come around & some likely won't - but to me that's the sign of a director & producer NOT playing it safe & NOT pandering to the fans desires/expectations/senses of entitlement.

People automatically assume that 95 percent of everyone polled is going to love Star Wars no matter what they feed us. Personally, I'd prefer them to make bold movies than give the masses what they want every time.

*Disclaimer - I'm not suggesting LJ is any more or less "bold" than any other entry in the series.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 20, 2017, 10:50:51 PM
Are you sure about that... sounds like fake news put out by Disney.   
I actually started reading through several posts - not sure how one person could hack and write all those different post.  Mind you, I did not read the 100,000 post that are there.

No, Disney wasn't the one... the story broke because a specific person apparently bragged about how he hacked the audience vote as an act of revenge and to push Disney to restore the old EU. Sheesh, true or not, that's a great way to come off as the ultimate loser if you ask me. The people behind Rotten Tomatoes swear that the 56% rating is real (which they basically have to, they'd look like complete idiots if one person actually did manage to drastically alter one of their metrics so easily, it'd destroy the credibility of ALL of their audience rankings for every movie). 

Here's a link to the latest: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/12/20/rotten-tomatoes-last-jedi-score-legit/
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 21, 2017, 11:44:29 AM
If it is true, it is hilarious! All the alt-right types who laughed at the scream at the sky movement are now wasting time using bots to hack a movie site about a fantasy film for nerds and kids as well as signing unrealistic go-nowhere petitions! It would be funny in a ha ha way if it wasn't so sad and frightening.

Did you read the guy's stated reasons? He basically flat out says he wants men to be the leaders of society again! I showed this to my daughter and she just rolled her eyes. I hate having to expose her to this kind of BS. I can see the frustration and sadness in the eyes of my wife and daughter every time some insecure yahoo doing something like this makes the news. Discouraging enough for me as a man, can't even begin to imagine what it would feel like to be a woman in these moments.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 21, 2017, 03:04:49 PM
It's hard to believe one guy in a position like that (not a significantly powerful one, by my assessment), can rally enough help from other morons to influence things. Goes to show how fragile some things on the internet - ie veracity of information - still are. Make sure you read as many sides of a story as you can these days!  :speechless-smiley-004:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 21, 2017, 03:38:38 PM
Guys.....please don't use bleeding truth as a source of news.
 
A poll any poll can be totally inaccurate .  If that was not true Hillary would be in office and not Trump.  The bleeding truth are just writing stories to drive you to their page.  Thank goodness there have only been 67 shares of this page.   The article even states they don't know how it was done - they just think it was done.
Take the time and read the reviews at rotten tomatoes .   I think if you do you will see people who are genuinely disappointed in the movie and they are very passionate about Star Wars.   
This story actually is a really good example of FAKE News.  People are disappointed in TLJ, the audience is giving it a low score, no big deal.   

It burns me when fake news people say things like:

"As I’m sure you’re aware by now, Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi has an abysmal Rotten Tomatoes audience score which is in direct conflict with its high critics score. This by itself is rather unusual"


Complete BS, this happens all the time on rotten tomatoes, that critics love the movie and audiences do not.  And vice versa critics put the movie down and audiences love the movie.   If this was not true, you would never see another Michael Bay movie ever made.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: PizzatheHutt on December 21, 2017, 04:38:31 PM
It gets better with repeat viewings my first time seeing it was not sure if I liked or hated it.  I do like it now after seeing it a second time,  mind you it still has allot of issue's that are major one's.  It still ranks last for me out of all the SW movies.  But  I would rate it about 6-6.5 outta 10 now.  Mainly do to some major plot issues that I find it has.  I will probably be buying it now though.  Glad I purchased a second ticket when I pre-ordered the opening day tickets. 

I think it is better with repeat viewing because the WTF moments are out of the way & you can focus more on the movie than the plot issues.  They have to lay off the annoying over the top comedy though it just takes you right out of the picture & at the same time i more eye rolling than funny.
 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 21, 2017, 05:24:01 PM
Hope you're right C!. The Huffington Post had pretty much the same report however.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 22, 2017, 12:03:47 AM
It's hard to believe one guy in a position like that (not a significantly powerful one, by my assessment), can rally enough help from other morons to influence things. Goes to show how fragile some things on the internet - ie veracity of information - still are. Make sure you read as many sides of a story as you can these days!  :speechless-smiley-004:

Please note that according to this article, this one guy was using bots, not other humans, to help push the audience score lower... bots of course, being the equivalent to a 21st century army that can be used to bias polls, spread fake news, tie up website resources, etc.  It's like your own personal clone army :)

http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-wars-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-score-bots

Oh, I personally liked most of the humor in the movie (the early scene with Poe trying to stall Hux was dumb though, as was Finn's leaking bacta suit).  Really, when Chewie executes a hard turn of the Falcon and that Porg smashes up against the cockpit window?  That will continue to get me whenever I see that moment, even 10 years from now... I have not laughed that hard in a SW flick in a long, long time.


Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 22, 2017, 12:35:44 AM
I understood the bot part, it just sounded more "tech savvy" than the guy being interviewed would be capable of (based on his dumb sounding replies). I guess he recruited help - lots of smart people out there that love doing that type of stuff just to show they can, not to serve any particular cause. I guess I'm kinda hoping that was the case here, but I'm sure there are tech savvy dummies as well.

EDITED: Viewing #3 tonight & some of the things were back to bugging me again. I'm up & down like a toilet seat.  :crazy:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 22, 2017, 01:43:50 AM
Here's an interesting extract from a talkback... another way in which reaction to the film was gauged. It talks about the critical response, which on RT was high, and then the fan reaction... one talkbacker noted:

Quote
Last Jedi is like the 2016 Presidential election. Trump won the electoral college but not the popular vote. Critics gave the movie 93% but Critics arent devoted Star Wars fans they are movie reviewers their criteria for what a good Star wars film isnt the same as a Star Wars fan. Same goes for general Audiences--who love Last Jedi. I separate serious fan from general audience or casual fan. A serious fan buys the books, the toys, the visual guides..are steeped in SW lore. Sort of like a sports team fan who has season tickets, jerseys, trading cards, posters. And a fan that catches an occasional game. There is a distinction.

The reply from another talkbacker:
Quote
I think it's a good distinction too, that's why the surveymonkey exitpoll makes for such interesting reading. 4441 randomly selected audience members were screened over the first 4 days of screenings, but they made your distinction asking people whether they considered themselves regular fans / or hardcore fans, and the polled data remained at 89% liked / loved it between both groups.

Interestingly the split of liked/ loved it in the folks who described themselves as regular fans was 66% and 34%, and the split between the folks who described themselves as hardcore fans was actually much higher: 37% liked it and 66% loved it.

Overall the exit poll tallies with others like comscore/ postTrak etc, but the distinction is what made this one interesting. Anyhoo, all food for thought.

I would trust an exit poll more than I would ever trust the audience score on RT, although maybe after second or third viewings, those fans changed their minds again?  That would be called "pulling a JJReason"  :)

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 22, 2017, 05:14:20 AM
It gets better with repeat viewings my first time seeing it was not sure if I liked or hated it.  I do like it now after seeing it a second time,  mind you it still has allot of issue's that are major one's.  It still ranks last for me out of all the SW movies.  But  I would rate it about 6-6.5 outta 10 now.

I think after second viewing, I will probably feel the same as PizzatheHutt.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: bob on December 22, 2017, 07:42:11 AM
 
 There are some half decent copies of TLJ online now if anyone cares for that. ive watched it 4 or 5 times already after seeing it in the theatre opening night. im still going back to see it properly but for now its great to catch things at home.

 merry ho ho!
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Wedge1021 on December 26, 2017, 03:50:05 PM
Hopefully Ron Howard will be able to get the haters back on side with Solo.   

Rumours are Solo is a complete trainwreck and Disney is already bracing for it to bomb.
Of course, rumours are just rumours, but it's already known as "Solo: The Star Wars Story No One Ever Asked For"

For the record, like most here, I liked some parts and hated others. Overall, it's fighting for last place with Ep7 for me. More than ever, I want to know what George Lucas' ideas were for the sequels. I liked the prequels. And I loved Rogue One.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 26, 2017, 04:43:09 PM
Hopefully Ron Howard will be able to get the haters back on side with Solo.   

Rumours are Solo is a complete trainwreck and Disney is already bracing for it to bomb.
Of course, rumours are just rumours, but it's already known as "Solo: The Star Wars Story No One Ever Asked For"

For the record, like most here, I liked some parts and hated others. Overall, it's fighting for last place with Ep7 for me. More than ever, I want to know what George Lucas' ideas were for the sequels. I liked the prequels. And I loved Rogue One.

Wedge, thanks for the info. on Solo, I wish it was better news.  I guess Disney really wants to kill off Han Solo in another bad way other than his horrible death scene in The Force Awakens.

I have to agree with you that I wish Disney had let George Lucas end the characters he had created.   We would all have left the theatre feeling great about our child hood and the new beginning for the next Star Wars generation.  Hopefully George will write the stories in a book or two or three and Disney will let them be published.  At this point I would be satisfied with that and let those books be the ending of Star Wars for me.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 26, 2017, 11:25:44 PM
Went with my kids and saw it for second time.   It is alot better after the second viewing.  My daughter liked it, my son hated it.  He likes Rogue One but hates the other movies and wishes Disney had not made them.  He would have rather seen Disney just start making new Star Wars movies and not have messed with the original Disney Characters. My daughter had a party with bunch of 17 years teenagers boys and girls this weekend.  None of them liked the movie.   My feeling is , I am currently watching Revenge of the Sith on TV as I write this.  It is a Star Wars movie.  The Last Jedi is a movie about Star Wars, it is not a Star Wars movie. That is the best way I can describe how I feel about The Last Jedi.   For the last movie, I hope JJ lets some time past and they start with a funeral or memorial for Princess Leia and this passage of time will let the rebel build up their forces and get new Jedi to fight their battles.   I am guessing we will find out the Kylo Ren and Rey are brother and sister in the next movie.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Wedge1021 on December 27, 2017, 12:38:45 AM
My daughter liked it, my son hated it.  He likes Rogue One but hates the other movies and wishes Disney had not made them.  He would have rather seen Disney just start making new Star Wars movies and not have messed with the original Disney Characters.

Sounds like your son and I are of the same mind on that. I loved Rogue One, but did not like the ST films. I wish Disney had just moved past the OT characters completely for this trilogy - make it take place a few decades further yet.

My feeling is , I am currently watching Revenge of the Sith on TV as I write this.  It is a Star Wars movie.  The Last Jedi is a movie about Star Wars, it is not a Star Wars movie. That is the best way I can describe how I feel about The Last Jedi.

This is what I thought about Ep7 when it came out. The sequels are movies called "Star Wars" but they are not Star Wars movies.
I felt the same about the Star Trek reboot films too. Except those felt even less like what Star Trek should be.
Call me old and crusty.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 27, 2017, 07:26:54 AM
Sounds like your son and I are of the same mind on that. I loved Rogue One, but did not like the ST films. I wish Disney had just moved past the OT characters completely for this trilogy - make it take place a few decades further yet.

My son said almost the same words at the theatre.  He loves Rogue One also, he is 15 years old, so I don't know how old and crusty you can be with a young Jedi thinking the same way you do. 



Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 27, 2017, 07:35:20 AM
I am guessing we will find out the Kylo Ren and Rey are brother and sister in the next movie.

The more and more I think about what I saw on the second viewing, I don't think it is a guess, I think 100% we will see that Kylo Ren and Rey are brother and sister.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 27, 2017, 01:40:13 PM
I think 100% we will see that Kylo Ren and Rey are brother and sister.

Let's not forget, the Porgs will overrun the Imperia--- I mean, the First Order, troops and save the day. Then... there will be a big dance party at the end.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 27, 2017, 04:29:28 PM
I think 100% we will see that Kylo Ren and Rey are brother and sister.

Let's not forget, the Porgs will overrun the Imperia--- I mean, the First Order, troops and save the day. Then... there will be a big dance party at the end.

I agree 100% with this.   Yub Nub song will be updated to the Porg's Yub Pug song. Can't wait to buy the 45.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 28, 2017, 04:32:06 PM
Hopefully Ron Howard will be able to get the haters back on side with Solo.   

Rumours are Solo is a complete trainwreck and Disney is already bracing for it to bomb.
Of course, rumours are just rumours, but it's already known as "Solo: The Star Wars Story No One Ever Asked For"

For the record, like most here, I liked some parts and hated others. Overall, it's fighting for last place with Ep7 for me. More than ever, I want to know what George Lucas' ideas were for the sequels. I liked the prequels. And I loved Rogue One.

Oh, boy.  Where to start with this one...

I can't think of ONE SINGLE P̶E̶R̶S̶O̶N̶ er, FAN that wanted this movie.  I know I certainly didn't.  And you know it had to be bad if (writer) Lawrence Kasdan was mad enough to go straight to the top to get these two directors fired.  I've heard that he was mad that the directors would just let actors ad-lib and not stick to the script, which is fine, but it changed the tone from whatever it was supposed to be to a comedy. 

I'm not looking forward to it but will be there opening night and have my fingers crossed that Richie Cunningham was able to save it somewhat.  I don't want to go into spoilers (this movie should have its own thread by now) but I'm sure there will be some re-shoots in the next couple of months and there will be some, if not already, OT cameo's to make fans a little happier. 

Back to TLJ.  I think I'm gonna have to rank it just below TFA for now.  I'm not gonna post my whole ranking but my top three are: ESB, ROTJ, & ROTS (love Revenge of the Sith!).  ANH would be next, then R1 or TFA, so that would put TLJ in the bottom 3. 

I'm very comfortable with Abrams taking over now.  I think he "... will begin to make things right."  After all that was his line.  I think he will handle Leia's departure well, this will give a perfect opportunity to bring back Lando (if it's a funeral) and finish bridging the gap between the Trilogies.  After seeing TLJ a few times, I now appreciate what he did in TFA. 

And guys - Rey and Kylo are not siblings.  Her parents were nobodies, she says it herself. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 28, 2017, 05:54:50 PM
And guys - Rey and Kylo are not siblings.  Her parents were nobodies, she says it herself.

I agree with everything else you said but this one thing. 

Cash Fan, I love you, but I respectfully must say that I guarantee 100% that they are brother and sister.    There is no chance it is anything else.   Next time you are watching The Last Jedi.  Watch it and look for evidence that they are foreshadowing that they are brother and sister.  I think if you do this you will quickly see that this movie is the set-up for the big SURPRISE in the next movie.  Just like we found out Darth Vader was Luke's Father and we could not believe it.  We will find out that Rey and Kylo Ren are brother and sister.

 

 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: cash_fan on December 28, 2017, 09:10:40 PM
Cash Fan, I love you, but I respectfully must say that I guarantee 100% that they are brother and sister.    There is no chance it is anything else.   Next time you are watching The Last Jedi.  Watch it and look for evidence that they are foreshadowing that they are brother and sister.  I think if you do this you will quickly see that this movie is the set-up for the big SURPRISE in the next movie.  Just like we found out Darth Vader was Luke's Father and we could not believe it.  We will find out that Rey and Kylo Ren are brother and sister.

Maybe.  I just interpret the whole "cave" scene where she asks who her parents are and the force shows her nobody, as if her parents are nobody's. 

But before I got sidetracked when I mentioned Lawrence Kasdan, I wanted to add that he has always been a solid writer.  He (co) wrote Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and The Force Awakens.  He also has a list of other great movies that he wrote too, like Wyatt Earp.  I was gonna say that if there were any one that should handle this material other than Lucas it should be Kasdan.  I'm sure the script for Ep IX is done by now but I hope Abrams lets Kasdan look at it and offer some input. 

And going waaay back to the beginning of this thread someone said that Tarkin would never have acted the way Hux did when Poe confronted his ship.  You're right, Tarkin would have just blasted Poe into a million pieces.  Hux, however is a millennial.  They have a sense of entitlement and will always go against the old school ways. 
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 29, 2017, 12:37:25 AM
Cash Fan...the mirror I think shows your greatest fear like what happen to Luke on Dagobah.  Rey's greatest fear is that she is alone and she has no family who loves her.   This is also why Kylo Ren tells her she is all alone and a nobody in this story.  He is using her fear to bring her to the dark side.  Yoda tells us that fear is the path to the dark side.  But fear not Rey, Rose tells us we will win by saving the ones we love.  This to me means that this trilogy will end with Rey saving her brother with her love.   The story of why the 2 of them were separated was going to be revealed by Princess Leia in the next movie.  Now with her real life death, they will have to rewrite how we discover this.  Rey is found on a desert planet of Jakku - she has been separated from her family - just like Luke was.   In the TLJ we see how upset Rey is when talking with Kylo Ren about Han Solo death - she is really upset.  That is because she is aware on some level that he is their Father.   In the TFA we are shown a Rey who is remarkably like Han in so many ways.  In the TLJ, notice how they show Luke and Leia communicating over vast amount of space using the Force and then cut right away and show Rey and Kylo Ren doing the exact same thing.  This is because they are connected in the same way that Luke and Leia are.  In the TLJ, Luke tells us he has only seen this type of power once before and it was in Kylo Ren.  He also is terrified of the 2 of them touching one another connecting together.  These 3 movies TFA, TLJ and ? are a trilogy that must connect together and make sense in the end.   I am at this point 100% convinced that this is the story of the trilogy.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: ambasah on December 29, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
everything you say makes sense Canadian Jedi...but all that build up may be for nought...just like the transition from 7 to 8.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: jjreason on December 29, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
I'm thinking brother & sister more & more with each viewing - and I think they'll re-use the grotto scene where her parents were blacked out to show Han & Leia. She'll confront him about it & he'll admit he lied. I think it's the necessary & expected way out & it will sooth some of the irate fans. It, however, will make me sad if they go that route.

I'm now at 4 viewings & although the movie is passable, the only "need to see" moments for me involve Luke & Rey. The rest is filler, although some of it is lovely filler.

ESB
ROJ
ANH
TFA = ROTS
TPM = TLJ
AOTC

I won't include Rogue One as I can't really figure out where it fits on the list. Good movie but way too serious.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 29, 2017, 10:17:34 PM
I will go with:

ANH
ESB
ROJ
ROTS
Rogue One
TPM
AOTC
BSG
TFA
TLJ
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Wedge1021 on December 29, 2017, 11:28:12 PM
I will go with:

ANH
ESB
ROJ
ROTS
Rogue One
TPM
AOTC
BSG
TFA
TLJ

LOL, did you put Battlestar Galactica on your Star Wars list? For shame, you know mixing sci-fi franchises is a serious offence!  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:

The kids and I watched the Holiday Special for the first (and will be ONLY) time the other day.
I have toyed with the idea of listing that higher than TFA/TLJ, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
I do equate them with each other as far as my own "head canon" goes - they never happened.

I think for me, the measure of whether a new SW film is good or not is how it makes me feel about the originals. Does it add something or make me look at the OT films in a different way or with greater appreciation? Then it's a good addition to the franchise. It should build up and compliment the originals, not actively try to tear them down and stomp all over them. While one could argue that parts of the prequels messed with the OT a bit, I think overall they made me look at the OT films a bit differently and read some scenes in a new way - ROTS in particular did that. In a similar way, Rogue One helped to raise ANH to a higher level in my mind - it was easily my least favourite of the OT films but now I'd happily put it against any film in the saga.

ROTJ
Rogue One & ANH
ESB
ROTS
TPM
AOTC
some fan films
a ham sandwich
TFA
TLJ & The Holiday Special
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 29, 2017, 11:48:49 PM
Wedge:

The way I see it, Battle Star Galactica was a rip off of Star Wars. And so was TFA and TLJ.  I just think Battle Star Galactica was a better rip off than TFA and TLJ.     :u:

mmmm...but I do like a good ham sandwich  :P , might have to revise my list.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on December 30, 2017, 12:23:21 AM
ANH
ESB
ROTJ
TFA (ahead of RO for me only because it felt like a fresh start IMO)
RO
TLJ
Droids
ROTS
Ewok movies (nostalgia)
Holiday special (nostalgia)
TPM
AOTC
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: napseeker on December 30, 2017, 02:19:45 AM
ANH
ESB
ROTJ
R1
TLJ
RotS
AotC
TPM
TFA
(insert eps9 here)

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: Canadian Jedi on December 30, 2017, 09:05:15 AM
I just went on Rottentomatoes to see where the rating is now.  They are up to 160,000 votes and a 51% rating.  When reading through the comments, this time, most are from real fans who are disappointed, but there are some from "whites are the best glee club". Those reviews stand out like a sore thumb.   
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: ambasah on December 30, 2017, 11:03:32 AM
I saw Rogue One with the kids (first time for them) the other day.

I always liked it but appreciate it even more now. Still not perfect but in my top 4 for sure.

My son (age 5) saw K2SO and immediately advised me he is a bad guy cause of the symbol on his arm. I am a proud pappa! : )

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: darthpaul on December 30, 2017, 06:14:09 PM
ANH
ESB
ROTJ
TFA
R1
RotS
TLJ
TPM



AotC

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: darthric on December 30, 2017, 07:30:08 PM
ANH
ESB
ROTJ
R1
TLJ
TFA
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

 :snowtroopers:
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: PizzatheHutt on December 31, 2017, 10:38:38 AM
ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO & ROTS   Keep flip flopping these two so a tie for now
TPM
TFA
AOTC
TLJ
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: sinkie on January 10, 2018, 09:42:26 AM
Saw it again last night (regular...I'm going to have to get to an IMAX screening before it is gone!).

Still really really like it. Was worried the fact I last saw it with my kids might have had an undue influence on me!

I was actually impressed by how they handled Rey/Luke. How subtle it actually was. I realized I had assumed Luke sensed Rey at the end of TFA. And so much of his discovery of her powers went over my head! He just sees her as an envoy of Leia until she goes to the tree on her own and even then he doesn't really know how much power she contains. I also think Luke works in the context of his character just fine. I think he was perhaps more scarred by his experiences than we all realized. It was pretty heavy what he went through, a lot of responsibility and sense of duty was dumped on him and...he started to succumb since he is human and his failure with Ben/Kylo really broke him (he was indecisive at precisely the wrong time and it cost him his nephew and all his other students (except those that left with Kylo).

My least favorite section remains the Canto Bight stuff. It just feels like it wasn't pushed as far as it could have been towards something more "realistic" rather than caricatured and that it got dumbed-down for kids for no good reason...kids would have been cool with it if it had been less Disney-romp-esque I think and cooler overall, darker in some ways.

Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: JediPatrick on January 10, 2018, 07:35:59 PM
Saw it again last night (regular...I'm going to have to get to an IMAX screening before it is gone!).

Still really really like it. Was worried the fact I last saw it with my kids might have had an undue influence on me!

I was actually impressed by how they handled Rey/Luke. How subtle it actually was. I realized I had assumed Luke sensed Rey at the end of TFA. And so much of his discovery of her powers went over my head! He just sees her as an envoy of Leia until she goes to the tree on her own and even then he doesn't really know how much power she contains. I also think Luke works in the context of his character just fine. I think he was perhaps more scarred by his experiences than we all realized. It was pretty heavy what he went through, a lot of responsibility and sense of duty was dumped on him and...he started to succumb since he is human and his failure with Ben/Kylo really broke him (he was indecisive at precisely the wrong time and it cost him his nephew and all his other students (except those that left with Kylo).

My least favorite section remains the Canto Bight stuff. It just feels like it wasn't pushed as far as it could have been towards something more "realistic" rather than caricatured and that it got dumbed-down for kids for no good reason...kids would have been cool with it if it had been less Disney-romp-esque I think and cooler overall, darker in some ways.

100% agree with all you said. That's exactly how I feel with the Luke-Rey scenes. As well as the Canto Bight sequence who definitely is the weakest sub-plot of the movie. The whole Fathiers sub-plot and the way Rose preaches to Finn, focusing on animals treatment rather than being angry and motivated with vengance after the death of her sister really troubled me. The whole "Fathier escape run" leading to the green valley ending scene felt like a Harry Potter kinda storyline. Not something one would expect in a Star wars movie. It was simply too light toned for the movie and way too childish for SW in general. The worse part in any SW movie IMHO. Far worse than Jar Jar sticking out his tongue, almost equal to the farting scene of TPM.

Nonetheless, I watched the movie 4 times, the first two within the first 6 hrs on December 14-15, then with my oldest daughters (16 & 18yo) and last Saturday with my youngest two daughters (7 and 9 yo). I have to say it's better with each viewing. The bad parts are not improving, but the good parts are getting better. :) Not my top movie, but not my worse.
Title: Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
Post by: brianakarobin on January 10, 2018, 09:23:02 PM
I will go with:

ANH
ESB
ROJ
ROTS
Rogue One
TPM
AOTC
BSG
TFA
TLJ

LOL, did you put Battlestar Galactica on your Star Wars list? For shame, you know mixing sci-fi franchises is a serious offence!  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:

The kids and I watched the Holiday Special for the first (and will be ONLY) time the other day.
I have toyed with the idea of listing that higher than TFA/TLJ, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
I do equate them with each other as far as my own "head canon" goes - they never happened.

I think for me, the measure of whether a new SW film is good or not is how it makes me feel about the originals. Does it add something or make me look at the OT films in a different way or with greater appreciation? Then it's a good addition to the franchise. It should build up and compliment the originals, not actively try to tear them down and stomp all over them. While one could argue that parts of the prequels messed with the OT a bit, I think overall they made me look at the OT films a bit differently and read some scenes in a new way - ROTS in particular did that. In a similar way, Rogue One helped to raise ANH to a higher level in my mind - it was easily my least favourite of the OT films but now I'd happily put it against any film in the saga.

ROTJ
Rogue One & ANH
ESB
ROTS
TPM
AOTC
some fan films
a ham sandwich
TFA
TLJ & The Holiday Special
I love the list - not that I agree completely, but I do like a good ham sandwich :winking0071:

For me, its:
ROTJ
ESB
ANH
R1
ROTS
TPM
TLJ
TFA
AOTC