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Snowtrooper Central => Wampa Cave => Topic started by: brianakarobin on September 12, 2017, 03:37:23 PM

Title: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: brianakarobin on September 12, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
As was recently posted here, another drop out in the Star Wars directing world - Colin Trevorrow is no longer doing Episode IX due to the classic "creative differences" with Kathleen Kennedy et al at Lucasfilm.

Just announced today, though - JJ Abrams will be taking the role of writer and director! Good news for some fans, bad for others. Time will tell, but immediate thoughts?
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 12, 2017, 03:54:08 PM
I'm good with it in theory. I'm a fan of TFA. If TLJ blows it out of the water I might be less enthused.

At the very least I think JJ gets that characters emoting, jumping into action and generally embodying their character goes a long way. And his stories rarely lack in the action department. There are also several moments in TFA that I find oddly pandering/brilliant at the same time. Rey's speeder going across the screen at twilight comes to mind.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Darth Woo on September 12, 2017, 04:15:36 PM
ROTJ II, here we go!

j/k.  I liked TFA and do welcome the news of Abrams taking over.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Eradicator on September 12, 2017, 05:03:07 PM
At this stage I will wait and see what TLJ looks like and go from there. TFA was ok and I was hoping they would have gone in a new direction. Maybe TLJ will do that but it really isn't looking that way.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 12, 2017, 06:16:56 PM
 :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177: :mad0177:
TFA -  >:( >:( :mad0137: :mad0137: >:( >:( :mad0137: :mad0137: >:( >:( :mad0137: :mad0137:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: bob on September 12, 2017, 06:55:30 PM
 not impressed. TFA has its moments but it also has a lot of moments that just arent memorable to me :/ i dont jump on the ''its a new hope rehash'' like a lot do. although its true in parts.

 i just think hes a bad choice to end the trilogy after doing the first one. doesnt feel right...at least it makes me more excited for TLJ and 2019 doesnt have to come sooner then later! ha

 
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: JediPatrick on September 12, 2017, 07:25:22 PM
I'm a huge hardcore Star Wars fan so for me all Star Wars movies suck except the original theatrical 1977 release of the the first Star Wars movie when it was the only one and had no "Episode" chapter on top of the scrolling intro, but in fact I dislike all about this movie except the scrolling intro, the Yavin IV Ceremony (mostly because of the fanfare theme) and the end credits (because of the SW theme).

I also hate all the anime series (except a few minutes of the Tartakovsky's Clone Wars series) as much as I hated the Ewoks and Droids Cartoons back in the 80's, but I really like Ahsoka and Ezra and all, but not Maul because he was part of the prequels which I hate the most except the Ewoks.

I also collect everything Star Wars because I really like Star Wars, so I collect all the Kenner era stuff, the modern era stuff, the Clone Wars era stuff, the Rebels era stuff, even though I hate everything except collecting the Empire-related stuff. So I spend thousands of dollars every year (I think I own approx. 100k$ of Star Wars merchandise in my place), but I really despise Hasbro and what they do, especially the 5POA figures which I collect both MOC and to be displayed on diorama settings on my shelves (for which I spend most of my weekends building while my wife takes care of our 3 kids).

So I really love Star Wars, because I'm a really true fan. And I'm sure I can do better than any directors and scripter, because I really love Star Wars more than anyone else.

I'm also bipolar and my favorite Star Wars movie is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" because it doesn't have anything related to Star Wars in it. So when I watch it, I'm at peace.

 :rollfloorlaffsmiley: :speechless-smiley-004: :tongue0024: :P

By the way, I'm being sarcastic. Not pointing anyone, really, except maybe some people I've read comment on Instagram. I've seen so many stuff in the past couple of hours on social media it really makes me believe we SW fans are the most difficult, pain-in-the-*** critics there is. Sometimes I think we're not fans of SW, we're just trying to fill the emptiness of our lives and we take all this way too seriously... ;)

My message: have fun! If SW brings you so much disappointment, then maybe it's time to consider looking somewhere else. There are so many movies and phenomenon all around, SW is merely a tiny bit of all there is. And Roger Rabbit is certainly not among them. :P
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 12, 2017, 07:41:03 PM
I don't know what to think at first glance. I liked TFA, but there was a part of me that was hoping for 3 creative minds to each try their hand at one of the movies. There are certainly WORSE things that could happen, based on my good opinion of TFA.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: JediPatrick on September 12, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't know what to think at first glance. I liked TFA, but there was a part of me that was hoping for 3 creative minds to each try their hand at one of the movies. There are certainly WORSE things that could happen, based on my good opinion of TFA.

I really enjoyed TFA and I'm glad JJA returns to end what he helped started. Hoping E8 will enable to tie the knots he developped in E7.

To be quite frank, I really like the spin offs to be directed by newcomers. These are not the main stream movies, so as long as the overall esthetics is respected and true to what Lucasfilm created, I'm all for new creative minds...

But in the end, SW for me is like candy. It's entertainment. And toys as well. So I take what is given. They're certainly not the best movies I've seen in my life (absolutely not: even Empire Strikes Back no reaches of what a true artistic movie is for me), but they are Star Wars movies, so I'm happy with every release. I'm a kid whenever I watch SW. :)

Well... except Forces of Destiny. This honestly really sucks.  :)
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 12, 2017, 09:53:14 PM
Not knowing the script for the Last Jedi - I am guessing Luke is still alive at the end of the movie.  So this is my main concern about JJ writing the last movie.  He will be in charge of ending Luke's life in the final movie.
Luke has to die a hero's death worthy of his character. But I am pretty sure JJ Abrams will let Luke trip over a mouse droid and hit his head and he never wakes up.  TFA - Han Solo Death Scene -  :sign0065: 
Mark Hamill and I agree on this point.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 12, 2017, 10:05:28 PM
I think there is more to be revealed about Han's death, CJ, possibly even enough to make you shed a tear or two and renounce your hatred of JJ & TFA. I foresee you singing its praises come December 2019 in fact.  :love0030:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Eradicator on September 13, 2017, 10:25:35 AM
I was disappointed as well how Han went out. I thought he should have gone out with more of a bang. They did need to move the story somehow with Kylo so Han was the easiest way to do this and Harrison Ford wanted out as well. It will be interesting what they do with Luke and Leia. I will be a little upset if Luke is taken out by some chump. If he goes out like Obi Wan, which is what I am thinking will happen, I am ok with that.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 13, 2017, 04:27:49 PM
Obi wan lifted his lightsaber and let himself be cut down which was cool but pretty passive agressive at the same time. Han tried to help his unstable son because he knew it was the only chance he had, risky as it was, and he paid the price...or perhaps as my pet theory goes...he helped Kylo move closer to his bigger picture goal that not even Snoke knows of!

Regardless, Han's death was poignant IMO. I'm sure some out there who are parents could still have problems with it but it really resonated for me as a parent...maybe because my own kids are entering that age where the outside the home influences of classmates etc are starting to play their part and I'm quickly losing any hope that I'll have much more say in their development from here on out! I think Ford played that scene to perfection. And Driver was suitably torn over it all as well. To each their own ultimately but I wonder what else people were expecting really from an old man passing the torch? Dying in a fire fight would have been too cliche IMO. Having him give Leia his word he'd do something for their son and then die trying? Pretty powerful if you ask me. Yes it means we won't get the Luke/Leia/Han reunion some were hoping for and that I get but it was pretty much worth it. And will make it all the more heartbreaking when we probably get Luke's reaction to the news eventually. My 2 cents!

(and if this were rebelscum's boards I'd be waiting for the uber-personal hate to begin...but we're all friends here, right?)
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 13, 2017, 06:08:24 PM
We collectively have decidedly different views on Han's demise & TFA - but yes, friends for sure!  :u: :u: :u: :u: :u:

If I can play video games with CJ after all his unsolicited personal attacks, I can consider ANYONE my friend apparently......  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: cash_fan on September 13, 2017, 07:54:02 PM
I'm comfortable with Abrams directing IX.  I'm glad that he will get the chance to wrap up Leia's story.  I think now she has to make some sort of appearance - she just can't die off camera and get a mention in passing like Indiana Jone's dad.

I know Kathelene Kenedy said Leia will not be in IX but brining Abrams back makes me think other wise. 
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 13, 2017, 11:00:26 PM
I think there is more to be revealed about Han's death, CJ, possibly even enough to make you shed a tear or two and renounce your hatred of JJ & TFA. I foresee you singing its praises come December 2019 in fact.  :love0030:

I will promise to keep an open mind and I hope you are right.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 13, 2017, 11:06:53 PM
(and if this were rebelscum's boards I'd be waiting for the uber-personal hate to begin...but we're all friends here, right?)

I find this hard to believe.  I have never felt anything but love from our brothers at Rebelscum.    :party0053:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Darth McAdam on September 14, 2017, 10:46:53 AM
I'm totally with sinkie on Han's death. It gets me every time, particularly when he puts his hand on Kylo's cheek. Given what we know of Han's character traits, this is such a tender moment, I'm almost welling up thinking about it now.

And CJ, I know we've had our differences in the past, but I hope we can bury the hatchet moving forward. We're all Star Wars fans and collectors at the end of the day, after all...
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Eradicator on September 14, 2017, 12:31:29 PM
but it really resonated for me as a parent...maybe because my own kids are entering that age where the outside the home influences of classmates etc are starting to play their part and I'm quickly losing any hope that I'll have much more say in their development from here on out!

Well Sinkie, I truly hope your kids don't take you out with their lightsabers. LOL
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 14, 2017, 12:43:07 PM
but it really resonated for me as a parent...maybe because my own kids are entering that age where the outside the home influences of classmates etc are starting to play their part and I'm quickly losing any hope that I'll have much more say in their development from here on out!

Well Sinkie, I truly hope your kids don't take you out with their lightsabers. LOL

I hadn't thought of that!!!...death by a cheap plastic lightsabre held together with duct tape does not sound like a fun way to go!
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 14, 2017, 01:27:12 PM
I'm totally with sinkie on Han's death. It gets me every time, particularly when he puts his hand on Kylo's cheek. Given what we know of Han's character traits, this is such a tender moment, I'm almost welling up thinking about it now.

And CJ, I know we've had our differences in the past, but I hope we can bury the hatchet moving forward. We're all Star Wars fans and collectors at the end of the day, after all...

Darth McAdam - I am sure we can get along - but I did not even know we had a problem?   Unless, are you Chad?  If so, I am sure we can get along, in fact you can join my uber secret club: It called lets make fun of jjreason.   
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 14, 2017, 04:35:31 PM
Oh sure, pick on the fat kid.  :mad0177:

Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: JediPatrick on September 14, 2017, 08:32:26 PM
I'm totally with sinkie on Han's death. It gets me every time, particularly when he puts his hand on Kylo's cheek. Given what we know of Han's character traits, this is such a tender moment, I'm almost welling up thinking about it now.

Agreed. Han's death for me is the best possible death for the character. Here is my explanation.

Han is the father of Kylo Ren, the butcher of Jedi Padawans and leader within the First Order.

Would it make sense that Han would not try to get his son back? That he waits for the "savior" Luke to do the job he should do as a father? Leia's words have a very deep meaning: Luke is not the one who is best placed to save Kylo Ren. His father is. If there's anyone who should try to redeem this maniac, it's Han Solo. Not Luke.

Han is one of the most courageous hero of the Rebel Alliance. He helped defeat the Empire. Not facing his son and trying to reason with him and get him back would have been felt an act of cowardice. Come on! Leaving to Luke the task to confront this evil son? And Han would do what? Sit there and watch? Not do anything? Not trying anything? Leaving the hard stuff to his pal Luke just because Luke is a Jedi??

I've read many times people would have preferred Han Solo dying in his ship, the Falcon. Well, for me, it would have been a pointless stupid death. Come on! Dying flying his ship? For what? Being destroyed by a Tie Fighter? Exploding in the Starkiller Base explosion? Nah, that would have been the most stupid death for such a major character.

No, when I saw Han Solo walk that passerelle to face his evil son, I told myself: damn, that's what a courageous father would do! That's what I would do if I had a son that went on a crazy maniac frenzy all over the Galaxy! He's no Jedi. He has no Force power. He's just an ordinary guy who was forced to realize that the Force really exists. He's powerless in front of the tyrant of a son who hates him above all, yet he still walks towards him to try to reason with him. Knowing this evil child will probably kill him in an instant with his lightsaber, or choke him to death with the Force. Now if that's not being courageous, I honestly don't know what courage is.

Yet, Han is so honest when he talks to his son, so naive, that he fails to understand the meaning of what he's being told. Kylo tells him about his great conflict, about the thing he knows he must do to free himself, and Han Solo naively thinks his son is talking about getting rid of the darkness in himself to try to get back to the good. Han simply didn't get it: Kylo was merely saying that the only thing that prevents him from really embracing the Dark Side is him, his father. That in order to truly become a Knight of Ren, a truly master of the Dark Side, that he must cut this link he has with his past. That he must kill his father.

So when Han is asked if he's willing to help his son, he obviously agrees. And Kylo Ren takes these words and kill his father.

For me, the scene was horrifying. We knew it was gonna come to this. We sense it. And yet we feel powerless and watch Han being killed. Powerless like Han really is in front of this madman of a son. It was honestly one of the best made scenes of the entire SW sage. The aesthetics, the visuals are impeccable. The light fading away by the Starkiller Base just as we sense the struggle between father and son, the resolve in Kylo Ren as the darkness finally takes over, both figuratively and literally, the colors and the setting reminding that of the Bespin duel between Luke and Vader. Everything in this scene was so well planned it's almost a masterpiece in itself. I simply don't understand why so many people fail to see this.

So for me, Han Solo couldn't have faced a better death. He deserved way more than being blown to bits in the Falcon. He deserved to die as a father would do, trying to save son through an heroic act.

And the fact that Chewie and the Falcon survive Han Solo contributes to add to the sadness of his death. We feel the void. We see it. The Falcon will never be the same without Han. Nor Chewbacca. They will always be marked by his absence. Their existence now are tribute to the character Han Solo was...
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Darth McAdam on September 14, 2017, 09:15:11 PM
Darth McAdam - I am sure we can get along - but I did not even know we had a problem?   Unless, are you Chad?  If so, I am sure we can get along, in fact you can join my uber secret club: It called lets make fun of jjreason.

Well I figured that my being on the Rebelscum team would put me in the same category as Chad. I'm not Chad, but he's a good guy and a close friend.

I am honoured to be invited to join your secret club, but having been on the receiving end of much ridicule in the past, I feel it would be hypocritical for me to do the same to jjreason ;)

Nevertheless, I would very much like for us to get along even though I do contribute to a site with a largely U.S. audience.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Darth McAdam on September 14, 2017, 09:18:50 PM
Agreed. Han's death for me is the best possible death for the character. Here is my explanation.

Han is the father of Kylo Ren, the butcher of Jedi Padawans and leader within the First Order.

Would it make sense that Han would not try to get his son back? That he waits for the "savior" Luke to do the job he should do as a father? Leia's words have a very deep meaning: Luke is not the one who is best placed to save Kylo Ren. His father is. If there's anyone who should try to redeem this maniac, it's Han Solo. Not Luke.

Han is one of the most courageous hero of the Rebel Alliance. He helped defeat the Empire. Not facing his son and trying to reason with him and get him back would have been felt an act of cowardice. Come on! Leaving to Luke the task to confront this evil son? And Han would do what? Sit there and watch? Not do anything? Not trying anything? Leaving the hard stuff to his pal Luke just because Luke is a Jedi??

I've read many times people would have preferred Han Solo dying in his ship, the Falcon. Well, for me, it would have been a pointless stupid death. Come on! Dying flying his ship? For what? Being destroyed by a Tie Fighter? Exploding in the Starkiller Base explosion? Nah, that would have been the most stupid death for such a major character.

No, when I saw Han Solo walk that passerelle to face his evil son, I told myself: damn, that's what a courageous father would do! That's what I would do if I had a son that went on a crazy maniac frenzy all over the Galaxy! He's no Jedi. He has no Force power. He's just an ordinary guy who was forced to realize that the Force really exists. He's powerless in front of the tyrant of a son who hates him above all, yet he still walks towards him to try to reason with him. Knowing this evil child will probably kill him in an instant with his lightsaber, or choke him to death with the Force. Now if that's not being courageous, I honestly don't know what courage is.

Yet, Han is so honest when he talks to his son, so naive, that he fails to understand the meaning of what he's being told. Kylo tells him about his great conflict, about the thing he knows he must do to free himself, and Han Solo naively thinks his son is talking about getting rid of the darkness in himself to try to get back to the good. Han simply didn't get it: Kylo was merely saying that the only thing that prevents him from really embracing the Dark Side is him, his father. That in order to truly become a Knight of Ren, a truly master of the Dark Side, that he must cut this link he has with his past. That he must kill his father.

So when Han is asked if he's willing to help his son, he obviously agrees. And Kylo Ren takes these words and kill his father.

For me, the scene was horrifying. We knew it was gonna come to this. We sense it. And yet we feel powerless and watch Han being killed. Powerless like Han really is in front of this madman of a son. It was honestly one of the best made scenes of the entire SW sage. The aesthetics, the visuals are impeccable. The light fading away by the Starkiller Base just as we sense the struggle between father and son, the resolve in Kylo Ren as the darkness finally takes over, both figuratively and literally, the colors and the setting reminding that of the Bespin duel between Luke and Vader. Everything in this scene was so well planned it's almost a masterpiece in itself. I simply don't understand why so many people fail to see this.

So for me, Han Solo couldn't have faced a better death. He deserved way more than being blown to bits in the Falcon. He deserved to die as a father would do, trying to save son through an heroic act.

And the fact that Chewie and the Falcon survive Han Solo contributes to add to the sadness of his death. We feel the void. We see it. The Falcon will never be the same without Han. Nor Chewbacca. They will always be marked by his absence. Their existence now are tribute to the character Han Solo was...

All of this!  :D
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 14, 2017, 09:28:08 PM
I'm going to go ahead & drop my theory - don't read any further if you don't want to have the story ruined by my mutant future-reading abilities.  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:




I think Han turned on the lightsaber & killed himself. He saw the Kylo couldn't do it & grabbed his hands which activated the button. He saved Kylo whom he knew Snoke would kill if Han didn't die. Kylo's story will be the well hidden good guy looking like a bad guy/Snape killing Dumbledore routine. Betcha 3 tacos on this one.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Bespin-81 on September 14, 2017, 09:49:10 PM
I'm going to have re-watch that scene now with this in mind. 
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: JediPatrick on September 14, 2017, 09:49:23 PM
I'm going to go ahead & drop my theory - don't read any further if you don't want to have the story ruined by my mutant future-reading abilities.  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:




I think Han turned on the lightsaber & killed himself. He saw the Kylo couldn't do it & grabbed his hands which activated the button. He saved Kylo whom he knew Snoke would kill if Han didn't die. Kylo's story will be the well hidden good guy looking like a bad guy/Snape killing Dumbledore routine. Betcha 3 tacos on this one.

LOL  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 14, 2017, 10:05:03 PM
I'm going to go ahead & drop my theory - don't read any further if you don't want to have the story ruined by my mutant future-reading abilities.  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:




I think Han turned on the lightsaber & killed himself. He saw the Kylo couldn't do it & grabbed his hands which activated the button. He saved Kylo whom he knew Snoke would kill if Han didn't die. Kylo's story will be the well hidden good guy looking like a bad guy/Snape killing Dumbledore routine. Betcha 3 tacos on this one.

"SNIFF, SNIFF - no I have cold, I am not crying, really I am not."  Damn your Dumbledore Marvel loving theories - if that is true - no one will ever join my uber secret club - they will all be saying jjreason he's the man. And I will be forced to question my reason for being on this planet.  Archenemy of jjreason has defined me for so long I will not know what to do.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 14, 2017, 10:14:59 PM
even though I do contribute to a site with a largely U.S. audience.

I would probably do that also except I can not remember my password.    :kar:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 14, 2017, 10:51:08 PM
Thumbs up JediPatrick! Like Darth McAdam that scene with Han/Kylo pretty much punches me in the gut every time.

And I like that take jj...hope you're right. I have my own theory about what is going on in that scene but mine is much more convoluted. Your take and my theory could still work together but I like your take on its own just fine!
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: bob on September 15, 2017, 04:23:19 AM
I'm going to go ahead & drop my theory - don't read any further if you don't want to have the story ruined by my mutant future-reading abilities.  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:




I think Han turned on the lightsaber & killed himself. He saw the Kylo couldn't do it & grabbed his hands which activated the button. He saved Kylo whom he knew Snoke would kill if Han didn't die. Kylo's story will be the well hidden good guy looking like a bad guy/Snape killing Dumbledore routine. Betcha 3 tacos on this one.

 wow! thats pretty good and i havent heard that yet.

 as far as people across the net thinking Han should of died in a better way i never got that one! like the big post about this said is so true! hes Han Solo! he survives and gets away with basically everything thru dumb luck and just being Han Solo. confronting his own son isnt anything like that and totally diff..it really was one of the only dignified way for someone crucial to the OT to die. they wrote that well.

 the theory about Han actually turning on the saber would be cool! im pretty sure Kylo sorta nudges forward as he turns it on which sorta throws that theory away :/ but it would be cooler! you should mail that to them when they make the special edition and they can change that scene a little. haha ;)

 TFA has other boring problems that bug me but it did have its strengths too. anywho! 
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: napseeker on September 15, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
I'm not sure why people have these theories when JJ Abrams himself has stated that during that scene:
a) Kylo Ren didn't know if he was going to kill Han or not, and it was basically a last-second decision to do it
b) after killing Han, I think both JJ and the novel point out that Kylo expected to feel a surge of power because having killed his own father, he thought it would link him closer to the dark side but it didn't and he felt confusion.

None of these things would confirm that theory at all. I still contend Han did die a pointless, stupid death not worthy of his iconic status. He should've gotten mortally wounded trying to protect Rey from being killed by Kylo - having to face a choice of saving Rey or shooting, maybe killing, his own son, he chose to save Rey... but Kylo deflected his bolt back at him, fatally wounding him.  Han is helped by Rey, Chewie and Finn back to the Falcon where he insists on flying them all to safety in the Falcon.

Once out in space, he finally dies in the seat of the ship that he has flown for decades... not gutted like a piece of meat and thrown into the flames. He could've even done a symbolic handoff of the "keys to the Falcon" to Rey before dying, whispering Leia's name as his final words. Cut to: Leia, back at the base, hearing his last words through the Force and breaking into tears (showing no restraint at his death, she sobs and weeps, rather than just sit there passing gas, AND she later hugs Chewie). THAT is the death he should've gotten... a heroic one. Not an effin crap one. Sorry, but I loathe this movie more for this reason more than any other... never mind the notion that it turns all of the successes of Luke, Han and Leia into ashes. Han isn't even a competent smuggler (note how he jokes that his massive ship is devoid of a crew because they all got killed off by the live cargo - no wonder Rey didn't want to join up with him!).

edit: even if Kylo were secretly a "good guy" people seem to have conveniently forgotten he executed an old man at the start of the movie and ordered a massacre of an entire village of people - definitely NOT the actions of a good guy even if he's trying to secretly sneak up on the real bad guy... do the ends justify the means?  If he kills Snoke after earning his trust, is Kylo really a hero or heroic?  By killing men, women, and children?
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 15, 2017, 09:27:22 PM
I don't think he's a good guy at all. But I could see someone like Kylo (Ben Skywalker-Solo) given his family history and lineage actually tinkering with the dark side in order to do the most massive move against the Force ever! In realizing that this conflict between light and dark will go on and on and on and billions upon billions will suffer and die, taking on the burden to get as close to the dark as you can (meaning having to actually go pretty dark in order to convince...and then have it forever dominate your destiny) and end it all would be a massive, taxing undertaking. You couldn't just say, yeah I'm a bad guy but spare this village, let the old man live and ok sure dad I'll come with you right after I complete my dark side training. So his goal might be to do something that would in the long run be better for the galaxy but in the short term he's got to be convincingly dark in order to infiltrate and end it once and for all...requiring massive personal sacrifice: his own happiness, life, family, friends etc.

...but I don't think I'm right, just a theory I toy with to see if it sticks when I watch the film. So far I feel it could but probably won't. Even though that scene where he speaks to "grandfather" is odd. I mean Anakin went back to the light right? Wouldn't he have been told this? So why speak to a helmet and try to get inspiration from this reformed dark lord? Who ended up being someone who "started" to take down the dark side by being close it...though he did not "finish" it, he only took down Palpatine...see what I'm saying?
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 15, 2017, 11:18:52 PM
Neither a nor b preclude the theory, Nap. He would feel confused if he wasn't exactly sure what the hell happened immediately - then the realization would set in. The surge of power he was expecting but didn't get may have been mitigated by the fact that the lightsaber ignited while he was still conflicted about what to do - tell me he doesn't look surprised when you watch it next time.

The novels haven't always been known to beat people over the face with discrete plot points - for example the EpI novelization isn't at all clear about Palpatine in fact being Darth Sidious from what I recall (the movie makes it much more apparent than the novel did) and JJ isn't going to come out & state something like that when it may be revealed later on as a key moment. Not saying that it will be mind you, just my guess as to what's going to happen.

And I'll throw in an opinion here about the OT characters: NONE of them is going to die the death they deserved. In 1983 they were all going to live to be happy senior citizens and die with the galaxy at peace & the force in balance. That's the death they all deserved - the fact this entire new crisis has arisen ruins all of that, sadly. I can see the side of the people who decide the new trilogy isn't "their" Star Wars, the same way I have with the EU and Special Edition revisions.

Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: brianakarobin on September 16, 2017, 06:06:32 AM
I don't think he's a good guy at all. But I could see someone like Kylo (Ben Skywalker-Solo) given his family history and lineage actually tinkering with the dark side in order to do the most massive move against the Force ever! In realizing that this conflict between light and dark will go on and on and on and billions upon billions will suffer and die, taking on the burden to get as close to the dark as you can (meaning having to actually go pretty dark in order to convince...and then have it forever dominate your destiny) and end it all would be a massive, taxing undertaking. You couldn't just say, yeah I'm a bad guy but spare this village, let the old man live and ok sure dad I'll come with you right after I complete my dark side training. So his goal might be to do something that would in the long run be better for the galaxy but in the short term he's got to be convincingly dark in order to infiltrate and end it once and for all...requiring massive personal sacrifice: his own happiness, life, family, friends etc.

...but I don't think I'm right, just a theory I toy with to see if it sticks when I watch the film. So far I feel it could but probably won't. Even though that scene where he speaks to "grandfather" is odd. I mean Anakin went back to the light right? Wouldn't he have been told this? So why speak to a helmet and try to get inspiration from this reformed dark lord? Who ended up being someone who "started" to take down the dark side by being close it...though he did not "finish" it, he only took down Palpatine...see what I'm saying?
This actually happens several times in the EU, most notably in the Dark Empire comic series where Luke joins the dark side along with the resurrected emperor in an attempt to destroy it from within. It also happened in the Tales of the Jedi comics, where Ulic Qel-Droma tries to do the same thing.

It is certainly a possibility that Kylo could be doing this. I have wondered the same thing. I can't wait to see episode 8 and see where things are headed, but even if this theory is true, I'm sure we won't know until episode 9.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Bespin-81 on September 16, 2017, 08:15:27 AM
I re-watched the scene and based on Han's hand, I don't know if he could have done it.

I do, however, still really like the theory.

3 quick reasons:

1. It allows for a "Star Warsian" twist.  "You killed your father!"  "No.  He killed himself."

2. It makes Han's death more meaningful.  I can see Kylo/Ben not as a good guy in disguise, but someone on the path to the Dark Side.  It was Han's death (not the death of 100s of villagers, Jedis, etc.) that lead Snoke (I believe, if I'm remembering correctly) to believe Kylo was now able to "complete" his training.  If he didn't kill Han, his training will be incomplete and allow for an Anakin style redemption.

3. When (IF) Ren turns on Snoke, he can deliver a ROTJ Luke speech about his father just before he takes Snoke down along with himself -dying a self-sacrificial death just like his dad.   
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: cash_fan on September 16, 2017, 06:09:09 PM
90 days.

Should be a new trailer dropping soon.  Fingers crosseed. 
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: jjreason on September 16, 2017, 09:07:48 PM
Regardless of what happens, I won't accept Kylo as a "good guy". He can redeem himself part of the way, but it will require a character death as far as I'm concerned. Time for the Jedi to end, as it were.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: bob on September 17, 2017, 08:41:18 PM
 i get the feeling Kylo Ren wont end up being mr bad guy entirely. maybe he will save someone good and die in the process or something. kinda like Vader but in a different way.

 the only thing im not into is ''the jedi must end'' i hope that doesnt end up being the cliche thing, yknow, sacrifice everything and that in turn destroys the bad person. its over done and reminds me of the matrix yet that was around long before the matrix did it. its a wise thing to just ''be'' but i dont want to see that again and be reminded of the matrix, which i think is overrated anyway. that would kinda ruin it for me.
 
 maybe Luke will pull that but the younger ones wont. so i guess it wont ruin it entirely. i get the impression luke isnt going to be doing much in this. hes the new Yoda now (oh wait, thats what Maz is :S). he can still carry a lot of depth to the story for sure! but hes not going to be running around or flying x-wings. dont think so.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Eradicator on September 18, 2017, 10:39:37 AM
I predict a new trailer will drop when the new Thor movie comes out.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 18, 2017, 08:25:54 PM
Last of the Jedi - chances of this being true are zero - Disney did not spend 4 billion to just end the Jedi.  :luke:
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Bespin-81 on September 18, 2017, 09:02:41 PM
Last of the Jedi - chances of this being true are zero - Disney did not spend 4 billion to just end the Jedi.  :luke:

I think I'll agree on this point. 

This is the same reason I suspect Rey will be a Skywalker.  The name is worth too much to not continue on in future marketing/merchandising.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: sinkie on September 19, 2017, 12:05:53 PM
I'm on the fence. I could see them using the "ending of the Jedi" as fodder for future films where the Jedi are reborn, rediscovered, reimagined. So that the old feels new again maybe?
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Subcoolin on September 19, 2017, 05:20:22 PM
Apparently the new trailer will be out on oct. 9th Monday night football....again...it's a rumour..
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: napseeker on September 19, 2017, 07:47:04 PM
This actually happens several times in the EU, most notably in the Dark Empire comic series where Luke joins the dark side along with the resurrected emperor in an attempt to destroy it from within. It also happened in the Tales of the Jedi comics, where Ulic Qel-Droma tries to do the same thing.

It is certainly a possibility that Kylo could be doing this. I have wondered the same thing. I can't wait to see episode 8 and see where things are headed, but even if this theory is true, I'm sure we won't know until episode 9.

I'm certain we will see some kind of redemption for Kylo/Ben by eps9.  I just don't expect a lot of originality from Abrams - he's simply not a good writer nor capable of anything innovative. He'll give the audience what he thinks they want and the Dark Empire-style "Good guy goes undercover to disrupt the forces of evil from within, gets corrupted but comes back to light" is an easy route to take.  I also would include the now non-canon Republic comic storyline with Quinlon Vos going dark as yet another iteration of this archetypal storyline.

I have my own theory as to where this is headed, a somewhat cynical theory based on the fact that Disney wants to continue the mainline saga forever and won't simply end it with eps9 on a happy (and permanent) note:

a) Rey is the reincarnation of Anakin Skywalker, brought back to life and would keep returning to life again and again, until he has fully atoned for his actions in the prequels; it doesn't mean (s)he can't also be Luke's daughter, but she is also his father too.  I groan at the thought of this, but it would explain Rey's inexplicable deus-ex machina skill with the Force in eps7.

b) Rey will thus somehow influence Kylo to come back to the lightside, because she IS the grandfather that Kylo has been worshipping and can tell him directly that following the darkside is the wrong path and that at the very end he returned to good...

c) eps9 will mirror RotS just as much as it might mirror RotJ; we expect that Snoke will be defeated and the First Order crushed, but what if instead, just like with RotS it is about the utter defeat of the new Republic, the rise of the First Order across the galaxy?  Perhaps Rey has to go into hiding (possibly with Ben Solo, or maybe he dies in an attempt to atone) to form a new rebellion consisting of all Force users this time... and thus eps10 will take place 17 years later when the First Order is essentially Empire 2.0, and Rey's child/children lead some kind of new Force order against Empire2 which is enforced by the Knights of Ren (a dark mirror of the PT Republic which was safeguarded by the Jedi Knights).

This theory makes the most sense to me since Disney wants the cashcow to be fed forever and they aren't going to create yet another Empire clone (even Disney must say it'll feel like a lazy retread by that point) so just let the FO win the sequel trilogy and fully take over for almost 2 decades.  I'm pretty much done treating the sequel trilogy as canon anyway, so they can do whatever they want, and this approach lets them milk it and milk it for another 3 more sequel-sequel film$ until they just reboot the whole thing to start all over from eps1 to 12 again. It's my Ring Theory of franchise-milking.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 19, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
I'm on the fence. I could see them using the "ending of the Jedi" as fodder for future films where the Jedi are reborn, rediscovered, reimagined. So that the old feels new again maybe?

Sinkie:

I think in the next movie they could have some kind of end to the Jedi -but I think we would all agree that there is zero chance that the Jedi are over and done with.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: PizzatheHutt on September 23, 2017, 06:47:12 PM
I would take Abrams over Treverrow if that was the only two options.  Other wise I would've almost took anyone over Abrams besides the young spur of the moment directors Kennedy keeps hiring & firing.

If TLJ is awesome I would've just stayed with Johnson to keep the same flow for 8 & 9.
Title: Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
Post by: Eradicator on September 25, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
I think they did offer EP 9 to Rian Johnson first but he turned it down.