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Snowtrooper Central => Wampa Cave => Topic started by: ambasah on September 19, 2017, 09:52:36 AM

Title: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: ambasah on September 19, 2017, 09:52:36 AM
uh-oh...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/toys-r-us-files-us-bankruptcy-protection-chapter-11-amazon-online-competition-bites-debt-a7954571.html
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: sinkie on September 19, 2017, 12:04:39 PM
It's all our fault! Always waiting for those BOGHO sales and such instead of paying full price!!!
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: brianakarobin on September 19, 2017, 05:10:32 PM
Crazy!  It's a sad day for toy collectors of all types...
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: Eradicator on September 19, 2017, 05:20:46 PM
Let us hope they can restructure and continue on.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: Canadian Jedi on September 19, 2017, 09:29:35 PM
My opinion is the toy manufacturers are causing the demise of the toy industry.   Poor quality, poor distribution and over priced products. Lego and Playmobile still make good products but Hasbro and Mattel are really down grading what they are producing. 
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: DarthVader77 on September 20, 2017, 01:35:03 AM
I was never all that impressed with Toys R Us since they arrived in Canada. For a company that should have a monopoly on the toy market (especially in Canada these days), they make some poor business decisions. On the Star Wars front alone, they should know by now that the 3 3/4" action figures are king, yet they only stock on average about 8 - 12 pegs of them; many of them being several years old. Many new items are hard to find, and they often skip waves forcing collectors to turn to other US-based companies to buy product.

I think it's time we bring Toy City back again; a *Canadian* company that understood its customers and strived to please them.

(http://web.ncf.ca/cn333/Toy%20City%20Logo.JPG)
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: dangerlinto on September 20, 2017, 08:04:53 AM
On the Star Wars front alone, they should know by now that the 3 3/4" action figures are king, yet they only stock on average about 8 - 12 pegs of them; many of them being several years old. Many new items are hard to find, and they often skip waves forcing collectors to turn to other US-based companies to buy product.

I'm not sure it's 100% Toys R Us fault on that one.  I'm sure the Hasbro Corp sales people are pushing all those role-play items that take up enormous amounts of shelf space and rarely, if ever, move.  But it's obvious they have totally lost touch with what items are likely to leave their shelves and run-rates for those items.   It's not just Star Wars items either.  Other segments are equally poorly served.

The whole industry needs a shake up - Toys R Us is just suffering because their entire business model is based on the toy industry.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: jjreason on September 20, 2017, 09:23:05 AM
People don't want to leave home to shop. Brick & Mortal sales places, especially huge unwieldy ones like, this selling expensive novelty items that can be obtained via other online retailers (much cheaper in many cases) doesn't sound like a modern recipe for success.

I can imagine them moving in a direction similar to IKEA where they have few large stores that folks would have to travel to access coupled with more numerous smaller outlets folks can use to order & pick up items, as well as view or purchase a very limited supply of things they'd keep on hand.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: Brinn 71 on September 20, 2017, 01:27:53 PM
This SUCKS!  :(
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: fishfan on September 20, 2017, 03:32:41 PM
I can imagine them moving in a direction similar to IKEA where they have few large stores that folks would have to travel to access coupled with more numerous smaller outlets folks can use to order & pick up items, as well as view or purchase a very limited supply of things they'd keep on hand.

They actually have already done this.  The Toys R Us Express stores (mostly in Ontario) all closed 3 years ago as a cost cutting measure.  I ran one in Keswick which the customers loved and was doing great.  They swung the axe at all of them rather than just the ones that were under performing. 

I doubt we'll see their return unfortunately.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: DarthVader77 on September 20, 2017, 04:28:52 PM
Apparently Toys R Us Canada is in the black and has been helping to prop up Toys R Us USA for some time now:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9 (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9)
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: DarthVader77 on September 20, 2017, 04:32:12 PM
I'm not sure it's 100% Toys R Us fault on that one.  I'm sure the Hasbro Corp sales people are pushing all those role-play items that take up enormous amounts of shelf space and rarely, if ever, move.  But it's obvious they have totally lost touch with what items are likely to leave their shelves and run-rates for those items.   It's not just Star Wars items either.  Other segments are equally poorly served.

Definitely, but there are things that they can do to satisfy the customer that they aren't doing. For instance, in the vintage era, Kenner (now Hasbro) would ship solid pack cases of one figure if it was difficult to keep in stock if retailers ordered them. If Toys R Us would take advantage of that these days, it would eliminate people from having to buy online from the USA for elusive figures like the Emperor's Royal Guard.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: ambasah on September 20, 2017, 05:04:57 PM
in my view, a big part of it has to do with what kids play with today.

looking at my nieces and nephews, they are transfixed by video games and the internet.

My own kids (just 5) seem to be hovering that way as well already.

I imagine the popularity of ebgames for example ate into TRU bottom line.

Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: dangerlinto on September 20, 2017, 07:22:50 PM
I'm not sure it's 100% Toys R Us fault on that one.  I'm sure the Hasbro Corp sales people are pushing all those role-play items that take up enormous amounts of shelf space and rarely, if ever, move.  But it's obvious they have totally lost touch with what items are likely to leave their shelves and run-rates for those items.   It's not just Star Wars items either.  Other segments are equally poorly served.

Definitely, but there are things that they can do to satisfy the customer that they aren't doing. For instance, in the vintage era, Kenner (now Hasbro) would ship solid pack cases of one figure if it was difficult to keep in stock if retailers ordered them. If Toys R Us would take advantage of that these days, it would eliminate people from having to buy online from the USA for elusive figures like the Emperor's Royal Guard.

Those days of non-sigma six shipping are gone - and logistically not realistic. You are assuming there is someone like yourself who cares at every level of the chain (including store level, district and national level) about *which* star wars figures are being bought and sold at TRU.  Now stretch that across every toy line they've got - that's a lot of people - and a super unlikely scenario to actually occur.

Anything less than that amount of work and you won't get what you want.  And if that happened, I don't think you'd like the increase in price as the massive headcount would require TRU to charge.

No the problem is mostly Hasbro's there.  They *do* have people who are in charge of their product lines, and they are almost solely responsible for the terrible waves of figures which keep their own product from moving out the door.  They boggle the mind. While I appreciate they probably make these decisions months before they would know about existing pegwarmers and sometimes have to guess fan interest, it's like they are deliberately obtuse about understanding their own market.  For example, how many times does the ERG have to be a chase figure before they repack it in a 2nd wave?  The last time I recall the ERG appearing again in a wave after it's original release was 1997 Freeze Frames..

Apparently Toys R Us Canada is in the black and has been helping to prop up Toys R Us USA for some time now:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9 (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9)

I find this very, very interesting, but ultimately less surprising when I thought about it.  There are, really, only a couple of places to get toys in Canada. (This was the only good thing about having target around).   And there are still people who simply will not set foot in a Wal-mart - and they have to buy toys for their kids/presents.

And Toys R Us .ca is not too shabby.  They really, really need to put some of that cash into a top-notch place to retail toys.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: DarthVader77 on September 20, 2017, 08:58:29 PM
Those days of non-sigma six shipping are gone - and logistically not realistic. You are assuming there is someone like yourself who cares at every level of the chain (including store level, district and national level) about *which* star wars figures are being bought and sold at TRU.  Now stretch that across every toy line they've got - that's a lot of people - and a super unlikely scenario to actually occur.

That's precisely my point though; Toys R Us has options at their disposal to take advantage of to please the customer, but they aren't doing it. If a retailer could monitor selling trends back in 1978 and place additional orders for high selling items, then a company in 2017 surely can.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: dangerlinto on September 20, 2017, 09:40:34 PM
Those days of non-sigma six shipping are gone - and logistically not realistic. You are assuming there is someone like yourself who cares at every level of the chain (including store level, district and national level) about *which* star wars figures are being bought and sold at TRU.  Now stretch that across every toy line they've got - that's a lot of people - and a super unlikely scenario to actually occur.

That's precisely my point though; Toys R Us has options at their disposal to take advantage of to please the customer, but they aren't doing it. If a retailer could monitor selling trends back in 1978 and place additional orders for high selling items, then a company in 2017 surely can.

I'm not sure you understood my point.  TRU does NOT have the options.  Hasbro took them away in the name of operational efficiency.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: cash_fan on September 20, 2017, 11:10:02 PM
Apparently Toys R Us Canada is in the black and has been helping to prop up Toys R Us USA for some time now:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9 (http://ottawacitizen.com/news/retail-marketing/profitable-toys-r-us-canada-granted-court-protection-after-u-s-parent-files-for-chapter-11/wcm/55c27a9f-67b6-4718-83cb-1f532c780eb9)

I didn't read the link but I'm gonna comment on it anyway. 

TRU in the US has threatened Chapter 11 before, maybe more than once, but has relied on TRU international to pay it's bills.  Years ago shareholders made a push to seperate the two brands TRU and Babies R Us because BRU was the only thing keeping TRU afloat. 

I'm not saying that filling for bankruptcy is the nail in the coffin for TRU but it certainly is one foot in the grave.  They will never be able to pay back the 5 billion that they owe.  Never.  Target had a 5.4 billion loss in Canada and just packed up and went home.  TRU doesn't have that option, doesn't have the luxury of selling groceries, and doesn't know how to let go of dead (not moving) inventory.  The big box store concept (specialty type ie TRU-Best Buy-Sears) has one more generation left in it and then it's gone.   

I don't wanna see TRU go but they gotta make some changes. 
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: skywalker1973 on September 20, 2017, 11:52:50 PM
Hasbro, Mattel and other toy makers must be getting nervous right now. Walmart will have them right where they want them, over a barrel.
Hasbro's going to start trying some weird stuff in order to try and stay relevant.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: DarthVader77 on September 21, 2017, 09:52:53 AM
I'm not sure you understood my point.  TRU does NOT have the options.  Hasbro took them away in the name of operational efficiency.

But they do. Customer buying patterns can be analyzed on multiple levels in order to support purchase orders. Historical sales data is there not only for Hasbro but for all manufacturers, categories of toys, age groups, gender etc. Instead of doing their homework and basing orders largely on historical demand and current trends, Toys R Us buys a little of everything winding up with too much of some items and not enough of others. If they did a better job at their analysis to support their ordering, they would be more successful, regardless of what buying options the various toy manufacturers offer.
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: dangerlinto on September 21, 2017, 10:14:10 AM
I'm not sure you understood my point.  TRU does NOT have the options.  Hasbro took them away in the name of operational efficiency.

But they do. Customer buying patterns can be analyzed on multiple levels in order to support purchase orders. Historical sales data is there not only for Hasbro but for all manufacturers, categories of toys, age groups, gender etc. Instead of doing their homework and basing orders largely on historical demand and current trends, Toys R Us buys a little of everything winding up with too much of some items and not enough of others. If they did a better job at their analysis to support their ordering, they would be more successful, regardless of what buying options the various toy manufacturers offer.

No doubt.

But they do NOT have the option to buy whole cases of a single figure even when it's clear that the figure is far and away the most popular, nor do they have the ability to avoid the figure that will warm their pegs when they try to fill back up their shelves, as was stated originally.  They don't have the option to get a mix of their choosing to reflect regional differences - just an algorithm that re-orders product when stock levels are down, and even if they had that option, they would need a person, not an algorithm to do so, raising their costs.    Sure, they could steer clear of white and orange Stormtrooper blasters in favour of *more* figures, but that would only exacerbate the peg-warming issue - to which is the only issue I'm stating can't be reasonably resolved by TRU. 

I have had an account with Hasbro before.  I could do all the homework I wanted and still it would never, ever allow us to avoid receiving mountains of peg-warmers. 
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: jjreason on September 21, 2017, 01:35:37 PM
Hasbro, on the other hand, has done their homework. They have figured out how to force their customers (big & small) to order the max number of cases to meet demand for the few really interesting figures - it's the same as the comic companies forcing stores to buy 100 copies of a book just to have access to 4 copies of the desirable cover. Hasbro still sells their 1000s of cases, even if 3/4 of the product is never going to be sold at regular retail price. And to top it all off - in order to keep their Hasbro distributorship, the buyer MUST meet certain target purchasing numbers or they can't buy any more!! Talk about a game rigged in someone's favor!  :speechless-smiley-004:
Title: Re: TRU files for bankruptcy protection
Post by: dangerlinto on September 21, 2017, 07:56:06 PM
Hasbro, on the other hand, has done their homework. They have figured out how to force their customers (big & small) to order the max number of cases to meet demand for the few really interesting figures - it's the same as the comic companies forcing stores to buy 100 copies of a book just to have access to 4 copies of the desirable cover. Hasbro still sells their 1000s of cases, even if 3/4 of the product is never going to be sold at regular retail price. And to top it all off - in order to keep their Hasbro distributorship, the buyer MUST meet certain target purchasing numbers or they can't buy any more!! Talk about a game rigged in someone's favor!  :speechless-smiley-004:

For sure.  They are purposely harming their distribution channel's run rate.  Without pegwarmers, you'd think they can move through more stock -
 that means somewhere there is a bean-counter that has either convinced (or proven) that using that method, lazy as it may seem, to be more profitable than to be more agile in meeting their customer needs. 

I'm sure it's not all tin-foil hats there - some of it is they just guess wrong.  Like sometimes you make Constable Zuvio and then the character gets cut from the movie and what can you do?  You've already mass produced Constable Zuvio.  Other times you guess wrong on how many Jyn Ersos and Cassians are wanted and how many Chirruts and Bazes are wanted and you screw up there too. 

But it's all about those case assortments, one way or another.  (Case in point - we are going to see a LOT of Kylo Rens on the shelf this season)