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Author Topic: Street people / Homeless situation  (Read 2144 times)

stormtripper

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Street people / Homeless situation
« on: December 17, 2006, 03:21:40 AM »

So I am at my christmas party tonight and I pop out for a smoke (samba's, the bc guys will know what I am talking about). Some homeless person asks me for a smoke and I tell him sorry I don't have a cigerette for him, he see's me lighting a cigerette and asks if I thought that I was being funny. I am like pal, hit the bricks... and he grabs my jacket. Now I ask him to get his hands off me and I grab his wrist which surprized him and I rip it off my jacket. Now I am like pal, leave now or I am going to smash you, he puts up his fists and tells me that he is going to take me out using brazilian martial arts, and I now seriously laughing at this guy and I tell him for like the 6th time to beat it. He grabs my coat again and I drive him into the ground and pop him in the face twice. I feel someone grab my shoulders, and later found out it was one of his friends...luckily a couple of my co-workers are standing there watching everything transpire and my buddy chris says to that guy that it would be a really bad idea to do anything at this point. I ask the guy if its a good idea that he leave now and finally this clown agrees that it is in his best interest to have listened to me from the beginning. I am not feeling as sorry as I was for these guys anymore, I know that homelessness is a problem and I myself could potentially be a few paycheques from being there myself, but this guys attitude and pushiness have given me a new perspective on things. If I was incapible of handling myself it could have turned ugly, unfortunately for this guy I am not a push over and I don't like people invading my personal space. Sorry but this year I am not going to be as giving as I have been in the past, its unfortunate but I am not going to change my mind.
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 04:22:44 AM »

dude why dident you just give him one. Mind you smokeing is a STUIPED thing to be doing at all since it costs so much money and screws up your health.....But still you should of just gave the poor guy one at least you can afford a night out on the town but these guys get no help from the goverment what so ever and freeze all night. How ever it was wronge of him to get violent but if you where cold, Hungry and with out a home wouldent you be easy to piss off to?
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stormtripper

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 05:01:07 AM »

dude why dident you just give him one. Mind you smokeing is a STUIPED thing to be doing at all since it costs so much money and screws up your health.....But still you should of just gave the poor guy one at least you can afford a night out on the town but these guys get no help from the goverment what so ever and freeze all night. How ever it was wronge of him to get violent but if you where cold, Hungry and with out a home wouldent you be easy to piss off to?
I didn't give him one because I was honestly getting tired of being asked for cigettes everytime I came out to smoke. I disagree about the no help from the government, these guys can get welfare/handouts and know the system inside out. Why should I feel obligated to give them anything? For all I know this guy could have a home and just be acting the part! I don't feel bad about the entire situation and he had several oppertunities to walk away before he decided to put his hands on me.
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haggisking

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 05:56:58 PM »

'Just a cigarette' or not, I have to agree that the guy had no business grabbing(I believe the police would refer to it as 'assaulting') you.  If someone wants to ask for something, that's fine.  If they go and get physical, that's a whole different ballgame.  As Stormtripper suggested, what if it was some little old lady the guy asked for smoke or some change and she said no?  Is she going to be able to fight him off?
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 06:46:55 PM »

This whole homeless situation is a lot of bull s**t. It has been my belief since I started working 25 years that anyone can get a job and EARN their money. This was reinforced by the Toronto Sun's report of the "shaky lady" a few years back. Why should anyone give them money for doing what, begging oh yea that's a talent. Give me a break. There was a study a while back that consisted of giving a homeless man a 100,000.00 and an apartment and a job. Guess what happened ? He stopped showing up for work after about a week and had spent all his money within a few months. I don't get rude to these people but I will voice my opinion if they say something to me.
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jjreason

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2006, 07:21:06 PM »

Having dealt with a large number of these people, the only thing that I can say for sure is that each person needs to be judged on the merits of their own case.

A good number of these people have mental health issues - that's where the lack of government help really shows up. 10 years ago, many of these types of people would have been getting a lot more help.... but that's been decreased. There is no place for a "moderately crazy" person to live with assistance these days.... and it's really not easy for them to find work.

There is also a generous dose of drug (ab)users out there, who have fallen on really hard times because of their addiction. These people can often become completely destitute, focussing all their energy on earning enough money for their next drink or hoot of crack.

In the case described above, Tripper had every right to defend himself (but could have been asked to account for his actions had the other person been injured badly in the melee). Best to avoid these situations if possible, but I wouldn't let some joker rob me, either if I thought I could safely stop him from doing so.
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 08:17:43 AM »

When I was in Vancouver this poast September, I was so depressed by the amount of homeless people I saw that I ended up coming home a day early.

I drove by a park (near Gaslight), and it was FILLED with people, tents, buggies, - the works!

It was on a Sunday, so I actually thought it was an outside Flea Market for a second. (This was around 1:00 in the afternoon)

As I turned down a street to head back to Gaslight, I then saw 8 hookers standing along one block.

I must of had 7 or 8 people ask me for a smoke or change (I don't smoke - one guy didn't believe me).

Everywhere I went there were signs saying to lock up your car and don't leave anything valuable in it due to the extremely high case of break ins.

I know Vancouver is supposed to be this wonderful place and all - but I couldn't wait to leave it based on what I typed above.  Just a sad way to end off a two week vacation that started in Calgary, through the Rockies, on a Cruise ship for a week, then back to Vancouver.

Something needs to be done out there. I shouldn't have that day be such a vivid memory and the one thing I remember about Vancouver.
Mike
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 02:40:44 PM »

People hate me because I think the habitual or permanent homeless are lazy and parasitic. Yeah, some may be crazy or defective in some other form but don't get me started on that.

Yeah, yeah... blame society that we are failing and letting these people fall through the cracks... yadda, yadda... boo, hoo. Everybody needs to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting others to take care of them.

Anyone can become homeless in a split second but if you are intelligent and determined to make something of yourself you can get back on track.
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 03:27:17 PM »

Interestingly enough, in the midst of this talk we have the premiere of the Will Smith movie "The Pursuit of Happyness" which shows how far one man down on his luck can go if he puts his mind to it.

I saw the original interview that was on WSJR and how it was a chance encounter with a wealthy stockbroker driving up to him in I believe a Ferrari which caused the man to ask what he'd have to do in order to get himself a car like that.  When he learned that working on Wall Street was the key, he now had himself a target to actually aim for and set himself towards it.

While it should be the case that any homeless person should be able to fight against their situation rather than succumbing to it, I think that everyone in those circumstances needs that kind of catalytic moment -- something which gives them a path and direction. I do not see that being the case in the minds of many homeless, it is exceptionally hard to rise above their poverty and see a bigger picture unless someone else in a more enlightened and successful situation takes the time and effort to offer that to them.  And even then, yes some people will never believe enough in themselves to do it.  It is a very gray area in my opinion... were it not for luck and his commitment to his son for a better life, that gentleman documented in the movie might still be on the streets today.



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Hellboy

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 04:12:17 PM »

...these guys get no help from the goverment what so ever and freeze all night.

I dunno... Toronto has oodles of government run or assisted programs for those who want to take part and there are shelters with plenty of room that they are unwilling to use even on the nights with extreme cold alerts...  :shakehead:
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richd

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 01:12:16 AM »

Wow, a great (though depressing) topic, especially for the time of year.

I think stormtripper absolutely did the right thing. The guy that grabbed him was basically was committing assault the moment he touched him.

As with most complicated issues, therer is no ONE answer/reason/solution that can be applied. It's easy to sit in a warm house with a full belly and type about how those homeless lazy asses should get a job. But how many employers will hire someone who doesn't have a phone number or address? Those two simple things can make it almost impossible to get hired or even get assistance. My wife worked in a welfare department and trust me, getting assistance is NOT easy. For example, getting emergency money for work boots takes priority over emergency money to get food for your baby.

I think we all want to help those who are down on their luck or who struggle for whatever reason. I personally get disillusioned when money gets used for the next fix of whatever it is the person seems addicted to. That's why I'll offer to buy a sandwich or other food item if asked for money. I've been turned down on that one a few times.

An amazing book to read is "Friendship with God" about Neale Donald Walsh who used to be homeless and became a world-reknowned author. Don't let the title scare you, I'm not into religion at all and this book is great!

He talks about how the homeless stick up for and help each other, always sharing what they have and helping someone "get out" if they can. I wonder if this is why the homeless so shamelessly ask for something and seem offended when "we" say "NO."



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baggins1977

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2006, 05:29:53 AM »

i deleted my post here so no one would be offended.  if any were it was just my opinion and im sorry.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 01:08:38 AM by baggins1977 »
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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 08:19:03 AM »

...these guys get no help from the goverment what so ever and freeze all night.

I dunno... Toronto has oodles of government run or assisted programs for those who want to take part and there are shelters with plenty of room that they are unwilling to use even on the nights with extreme cold alerts...  :shakehead:

There is loads of help for these people. Being homeless is by choice. Most of them are alcoholics who drink away any help that is given. I was on welfare when i was younger (I left home early by choice) and I never had an issue finding places to stay etc these people live like this by choice.

As for the original post I have had similar situations myself when staying at Sick kids in Toronto going for smokes in the middle of the night or really early in the morning usually they just leave you alone but you get the odd one that just doesn't take no for an answer. I had one yell right in my face one time calling me names I was able to just walk away though.

I do feel for them on colds nights and what not but even then when the cities provide warmth and shelter they still "by choice" choose to stay out and not listen to warnings. These people have lost all hope and in the end it is up to them to find it no one else can give them the drive back.


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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2006, 07:38:49 PM »

I agree.
They do it by choice. If life has gotten that bad for you, suck it up and ask for a little help in places that matter.

I've done the same, someone asks me for a couple of bucks to buy a coffee and donut, I offer to buy it for them - they get angry.

It's strange.

Thing is, I can't EVER see myself in that position, but if I was in that position, yeah... I'd be ashamed I'm sure, but I'd still be man enough to ask for help somewhere it matters.

For example, if there's a shelter nearby, I would offer to do work to guarantee myself a bed and a meal each day. Over some time, I would ask if I could get a job to get myself started. That would (I assume) lead to another job that pays better - then to a place to live. It's not a quick solution, but it's one that works.

The main problem is, alot of these people have been treated like crap for so long that they don't trust anyone anymore, and think someone is always out to get them.

I saw a homeless guy today when I drove through Downtown Hamilton.
He was curled up next to a wall with a sign that said "Thank you for anything you can spare - Please don't steal from me".

Mike
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jjreason

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Re: Street people / Homeless situation
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 08:19:47 PM »

I found this (now deleted) post to be a little worrisome. We really need to be careful when it comes to passing any judgements about groups of people - especially on here where it can be so easily seen. I'm not going to edit the post at this time - it's your opinion - but if anyone chimes in about being offended by it I'll have to look at it again.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 03:59:55 PM by jjreason »
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