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Author Topic: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?  (Read 8493 times)

Rotaxxx

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2007, 03:40:30 PM »

Srry Folks for all the problems and bad feelings this deal has cost :shakehead:  I had hoped that after Arizona had got his goods plus the compensation it was a dead issue, I said my peace in the orig thread and let's leave it at that...Plus I make a public appology to Arizona here and to the rest of the great members and Mods here at one if not the greatest SW site in good Ol Canada. KEEP COLLECTING :u:

Geordie...AKA Rotaxxx
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arizona

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2007, 05:08:42 PM »

And as far as losing integrity?  :~/~:

If trying to maintain a site on our own time and try to keep everyone happy is a loss of integrity.... then you might as well leave right now. If the aforementioned member who had the neg feedback left on him ever rips someone off ( which I know he wouldn't ), well I'll resign as a mod and member.
Alot of us know the members very well, that's what makes this site last... it is a community.

-Rad74

Rad, you obviously have no idea what integrity is when it comes to digital information so I will help you out.

"Integrity: Protection against unauthorized modification or destruction of information"

You are telling me to leave because I voiced a concern via free speech. There was a guy back in the 40's who didn't like hearing comments that didn't boost his ego. He started a war.

This thread was never about anybody getting ripped off. Your above statement only send the message to new members that if you are not good friends with us then we will side with the people we know.

My original title for this thread was not offensive (there was no foul language or anything that would warrant a change). It was stating a fact that has been proved in this thread. It was changed because people with power can not separate emotion from duty.

As moderators it is your duty to everone on this board (not just your friends) to be able to separate personal feelings from your administrative roles.

This is not Rotaxxx fault and he shouldn't be apologizing for it. It was a terrible decision made by one Moderator.

This thread never had anything to do with the deal that occurred. It had to do with the lack of responsibility to this community when the feedback thread was deleted.

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jjreason

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2007, 05:33:23 PM »

I've already explained why I changed the title - but I'll do it again.

I took offence to the title of the thread. Not anyone else, me. I'm the one that modified it as a result, and explained why to the original poster. I also put up a blurb in the first post so as not to look like I was trying to hide anything.

Now, I'll try to articulate a little more soundly exactly WHY I took offence.

Arizona - your original title was a statement (and an inflammatory, anti-site one at that) which made it read like a fact that everyone should read and accept as such.

To me, it was an opinion that warranted discussion. I re-phrased it to sound more like a solicitation for the opinions of other users. Wasn't that the point?

And Sifo, no need to hide my name from the discussion. I'll state right here and now that I'm the one who asked about your motives for whipping up anti-admin (which, looking back, I should have used "anti-site") sentiment. Was that the wrong thing to do? This isn't the first time you've leaped head-first into someone's else's thread and basically highjacked it (remember the whole religious doctor fiasco from a few months back?)... but to what end?

You say it's for the Improvement of the site's moderation and administration... but to me it just read like you were feeling argumentative and decided to fight someone else's battles without knowing neither exactly what happened nor exactly what was done to fix the problem.... but again, that's how it read to me. And yes, that bothered me as well (and everyone can go ahead and decide if that's appropriate or not on their own).

I still don't think posting anti-site material is appropriate for this forum, and will remain quick to amend these types of things in the future. I still stick by my original assessment of the complaint - that arizona had an issue with one staff member over one thread being deleted. That doesn't, at least in my mind, mean that this whole site - including all of it's staff AND members - have lost integrity. If I did, there'd be no reason for me to maintain my post here as my credibility would be shot. I don't think that's the case - but again, if anyone feels otherwise, don't hesitate to let either of the Kevins know.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 05:45:01 PM by jjreason »
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Darth Torment

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2007, 06:26:18 PM »

There are a few things that are certain:

  • Negative feedback was deleted by a mod
  • Mods delete/edit threads or titles because they want to control it or hold an opposing opinion- not because it breaks a forum rule of some type
  • Rules are not governed consistently- rules are made, and broken by mod team here
  • When a concern about a mod is raised, Admins ignore it, and dont persue it


Us, as forum members, tend to draw our conclusions from what we see, and what examples are set by the administation/moderators here.  And what I mentioned above unfortunately speaks volumes
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 06:31:55 PM by Darth Torment »
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Radiation74

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2007, 06:31:37 PM »




Rad, you obviously have no idea what integrity is when it comes to digital information so I will help you out.

"Integrity: Protection against unauthorized modification or destruction of information".... oh okay, like jj pointed out...is one mistake enough to warrant a thread like this?
You are telling me to leave because I voiced a concern via free speech. There was a guy back in the 40's who didn't like hearing comments that didn't boost his ego. He started a war. Are you directing that to the site or to yourself?
 We all have the right to voice our opinions, however, on a moderated site, things that will cause a commotion are removed. And that is an authorized mod.

This thread was never about anybody getting ripped off. Your above statement only send the message to new members that if you are not good friends with us then we will side with the people we know. It does? I guess that's why our membership is stuck on 28 members. :confused0024:

My original title for this thread was not offensive (there was no foul language or anything that would warrant a change). It was stating a fact that has been proved in this thread. It was changed because people with power can not separate emotion from duty. That IS your opinion. I show noone favortism on here. If someone acts up ( a bit overboard ), we let them know. If a new member complains about an original members avatar , then the avatar is changed. That is not favortism.As moderators it is your duty to everone on this board (not just your friends) to be able to separate personal feelings from your administrative roles.

This is not Rotaxxx fault and he shouldn't be apologizing for it. It was a terrible decision made by one Moderator.

This thread never had anything to do with the deal that occurred. It had to do with the lack of responsibility to this community when the feedback thread was deleted. Why don't you just repost the negative feedback and move on? It was a mistake,the mod who deleted the post owned up to doing it. He gave a valid reason why, and I think if he could do it over he would have left the feedback as is. That IMO is integrity.


« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 07:17:54 PM by Radiation74 »
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arizona

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2007, 06:33:53 PM »

Arizona - your original title was a statement (and an inflammatory, anti-site one at that) which made it read like a fact that everyone should read and accept as such.

To me, it was an opinion that warranted discussion. I re-phrased it to sound more like a solicitation for the opinions of other users. Wasn't that the point?

It was never a statement of opinion. I always had the documents to back it up. When you think something  happened it's an opinion. When you have the proof something happened it is called fact. The facts solicited opinions.

You are now attacking Sifo who has done nothing wrong in this thread except express his concern and make recommendations. You may not agree with his suggestions to de-mod someone, but he is entitled to his opinion.

The reference to the other thread has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. It only tries to tarnish Sifo's name and dis-credit him.
It's unprofessional and uncalled for.

You are typing in caps and letting your emotion lead the way. Let it go. You are a moderator, act like it.
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Radiation74

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2007, 06:40:10 PM »

There are a few things that are certain:

  • Negative feedback was deleted by a mod
  • Mods delete/edit threads or titles because they want to control it or hold an opposing opinion- not because it breaks a forum rule of some type
  • Rules are not governed consistently- rules are made, and broken by mod team here
  • When a concern about a mod is raised, Admins ignore it, and dont persue it


Us, as forum members, tend to draw our conclusions from what we see, and what examples are set by the administation/moderators here.  And what I mentioned above unfortunately speaks volumes

There are prob only 4 or 5 active mods/admin here. There will be discrepancies. We didn't get a mod handbook when we signed on for this job. People make mistakes. The fact is, we don't delete everything that we oppose, that is a ridiculous statement. We mod topics/posts to maintain some normalcy around here, it's nothing personal ( except for the daily porn and star trek posts - I always delete those : :) )

Really, let us know what improvements can be made. We'll look at the suggestions. We might incorporate some, we might not. In the end we try to do things so the majority of the 1200 members remain happy. If I am one of the minority who wants to post bikini clad women or use the f - bomb, or maybe that I think the site just plain sucks. then you know what? I'd move on to another site.


-Rad74
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 06:41:43 PM by Radiation74 »
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arizona

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2007, 06:40:35 PM »

This thread never had anything to do with the deal that occurred. It had to do with the lack of responsibility to this community when the feedback thread was deleted. Why don't you just repost the negative feedback and move on? It was a mistake,the mod who deleted the post owned up to doing it. He gave a valid reason why, and I think if he could do it over he would have left the feedback as is. That IMO is integrity.

You just don't get do you Rad.
By reposting the post does not read as it was. That compromises my integrity. I will not do that.
You are administrators. Restore the post from a backup prior to it's deletion. That is how integrity is kept.
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Sifo-Dyas

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2007, 07:36:32 PM »

By the way, the ONLY thing that was a fiasco about the "religion" thread was other member's inability to recognize a valid scientific discussion and to be intelligent enough to appreciate that SOME people can in fact debate the paradox presented when evaluating the merits of faith and the scientific method. The thread's subject matter was actually ABOUT applying the principles of science to matters of faith, (although few were intelligent enough here to realize that) so the thread was not "highjacked" at all.
Brainakarobin, to whom the posts were directed, understood this perfectly and responded in an intelligent and debate fostering fashion. It was the myopic, flamy posts of other members calling names and demanding that no one be allowed to discuss the faith/science paradox on this board because they are unable to control their emotions and unable to let reason and intellect dictate their reactions that caused the thread to go slightly astray. Brian never took offence and actually appreciated the interest in the subject and the scrutiny of the application of science but other members needlessly and rudely jumped in to defend him. I don't recall you telling any of those people that they were butting in to someone else's "fight". How VERY ironic.
Just because some people can't have a fruitful discussion on the paradox of faith and application of the scientific principle doesn't mean that no one can.

 A failed low blow and completely irrelevant reference that only makes you look bad, J.J.

I don't fight the fight of others, I give my own opinon on matters as any helpful member of any community should do, and as any member should not only have the right to do but be encouraged to do, unlike the discouragement of such action that you are incredibly offering here.
. And to be clear, if there is a problem with the perceived integrity of the staff of this site, it is EVERY member's concern, not just the person who noticed the issue. If a thread title is edited, it is the business of EVERY member and everyone has a valid opinion on the merits of the reason for the change, at least they should . You seem to fail to grasp the principles that make a community function, a terrible flaw for a forum admistrator unless you want the forum to be the very antithesis of what the word actually means. Perhaps you should change the name of the board from the Snowtroopers.ca discussion forum to J.J.'s personal do what he wants/say what he wants regardless of other member's opinions playground.  :shakehead:

And Rad, the number of active members posting here has been slowly but undeniably dwindling. To suggest anything else is truly misleading.
Ever since the last episode of perceived staff impropriety, the members who objected to that offence have not returned regularly, some almost never and some not at all. Could be coincidence, or maybe not. I'm just keeping it factual.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 07:46:17 PM by Sifo-Dyas »
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Radiation74

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2007, 07:45:33 PM »


And Rad, the number of active members posting here has been slowly but undeniably dwindling. To suggest anything else is truly misleading.
Ever since the last episode of perceived staff impropriety, the members who objected to that offence have not returned regularly, some almost never and some not at all. Could be coincidence, or maybe not. I'm just keeping it factual.

Could be a result of the SW movie franchise wrapping up..... I mean what does the mod staff do to turn people off of the site? Let us know.
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Sifo-Dyas

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2007, 07:56:31 PM »

Yep, could be the wrap-up factor, that's why I didn't presume to know the reason. Just saying that it's a fact and the staff shouldn't be so quick to presume that there isn't something they could do about it or to portray the board as flourishing when it clearly is not. ( I concede that ONE reason the interest is likely down is due to not much happening in the SW world. That being said, many other SW sites are actually growing and becoming MORE active)

Well I tried to let a Mod know last week about how his statements were inappropriate and harmful to the well being of the board but the thread was then deleted because another staffer decided that it was "almost a personal attack".

It seems we have to not only let you know but say it in the words that conforms to J.J.'s personal doctrine of how to use the english language.

Please don't say it should be said in PM because that  behind the scenes stuff does nothing to let the members know that issues are being addressed and does nothing to solicit the opinions and experiences of the other members.
Furthermore, PM's didn't bring Arizona the required level of satisfaction or disclosure, as evidenced by this thread.

I don't think the site needs to become one big self devouring drama fest but things should be hashed out in a part of the site that is reserved for such discussions in full view of the member's that are affected by said issues. SOME Staff here have a history of being afraid of ANY openly discussed conflict. Pretty pathetic for a discussion forum IMO.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 08:00:56 PM by Sifo-Dyas »
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BountyHunter69

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2007, 08:44:18 PM »

Ok this is just ridiculous and to be quite honest gotten quite out of hand for the original issue.  I have been on this site for a very long time and also its previous iterations.  The mods on this site have been doing a great job.  Are they perfect, no, but then who among us is. Is this really worth dragging this out any further?  Everyone just needs to unplug for a little while and come back later
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Radiation74

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2007, 08:45:17 PM »

This thread never had anything to do with the deal that occurred. It had to do with the lack of responsibility to this community when the feedback thread was deleted. Why don't you just repost the negative feedback and move on? It was a mistake,the mod who deleted the post owned up to doing it. He gave a valid reason why, and I think if he could do it over he would have left the feedback as is. That IMO is integrity.

You just don't get do you Rad.
By reposting the post does not read as it was. That compromises my integrity. I will not do that.
You are administrators. Restore the post from a backup prior to it's deletion. That is how integrity is kept.


No, I guess I don't get it. Was the negative feedback written as a sonnet? Was it written by George Lucas? Man, come on. Get over it, repost the feedback, that's if it's really that important. Removing the feedback... was it something you had planned on doing? Will you deal with Rotaxxx again? I mean you had dealt with him prior to this, and things went well. He made things right, did he not? We cannot undo the deletion, all you can do is repost the negative feedback and it will remain there. Other than that, there is nothing else we can do. I apologize for any uneasiness or stress this may have caused you and the other members of snowtroopers.

-Rad74
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jjreason

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2007, 08:47:49 PM »

We do have a Comments and Suggestions area. That's where this thread is going to wind up when it cools off, and I hope all future discussions about problems with the site and/or staff can be dealt with in that area, away from the more positive conversations that usually take place on the boards.
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ambasah

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Re: Snowtroopers.ca - Integrity issues?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2007, 10:38:38 PM »

Ok this is just ridiculous and to be quite honest gotten quite out of hand for the original issue.  I have been on this site for a very long time and also its previous iterations.  The mods on this site have been doing a great job.  Are they perfect, no, but then who among us is. Is this really worth dragging this out any further?  Everyone just needs to unplug for a little while and come back later

I completey agree. With everything going on in the world today...geez enough is enough -
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