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Author Topic: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)  (Read 5194 times)

JediPatrick

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2016, 07:26:15 PM »

And since part way through the film I leaned over to my daughter and said "maybe Jyn is Rey's mom?" We both ended up thinking that perhaps she survives. How? Because of the crystal and whatever her dying father was hinting at when he said "there is so much I want to tell you". Plus there was one scene, forget exactly what happened, but she was toying with the crystal and then something "good" happened to them. I'll have to see it again to confirm but I thought it was perhaps just the slightest hint that she might be Force sensitive and perhaps the emotions at the end caused her to awaken unconsciously and with the crystal around her neck create a force field or something. So she and Cassian could be Rey's parents! A bit of a stretch probably and not something I am completely hoping happens but I can't shake the possibility that it could be.
No. Jyn is dead.
:( :( :(  All Sinkie, his daughter ( who I think is strong with the force) and I wanted was hope - A New Hope - and Jedi Patrick, JJREASON and bob - just wanted to destroy all hope we had - I guest we know who's resume has Member of Galactic Empire on it.
Sinkie tell your daughter I think she is right.    :u: and to heck with Grinches That Try and steal of theory of Hope. :D :D :D  :P :P :party0053: :party0053: :party0053:

LOL Sorry to bring all of your hopes down in a flame.  :winking0071: Like bob said,
we just want peace for the galaxy! :) haha

Kenobi's helpful because he has experience orchestrating big, multifaceted sieges against planets as we saw in the Clone Wars. I'm thinking it would also provide a huge morale boost to the Rebels to have a living Jedi knight join the team when most or maybe even all of them would have believed them to have gone the way of the Dodo.

That's a nice point.  Hadn't consider it from that point of view.  I like it.  Very workable. 

Still feels a bit like they're checking off a list of things they feel need to be mentioned to me, but next time I see the movie I'm definitely going to keep this in mind and see how it affects the viewing.  Thanks, JJ!

There's a portion of the movie where things seemed a bit jumbled to me that, hopefully, a second viewing might clarify. 

Like, what was Princess Leia's job?  Taking in the point of view that Kenobi was seen as a strategist, was she at the battle in a waiting position (rather than any kind of offensive involvement) with the ship ready to launch as soon as the plans were aboard?  Then, as soon as the Death Star plans were in hand, she was to take them to Tatooine, pick up Kenobi and then return with him to Alderaan in order to devise a plan to destroy the Death Star, perhaps? 

I think I could buy into that.   


I really think Mon Monthma suggests to Bail Organa to bring the plans to someone they can trust. Especially when the other leaders of the Alliance seem to think it was preferable to disband the Alliance and surrender to the Empire when they understood the danger they were facing with this new Death Star weapon.

I'd like to think a Jedi would probably be the safest place where they could bring a valuable piece of information, especially in the Alliance's darkest hour. If Obi-Wan could remain hidden for more than two decades, this Jedi could certainly be of help. And weren't the Jedi strategists and generals in the Clone Wars? Then this Kenobi could certainly be of help to devise a plan to bring down the Empire.

See, in Star Wars A New Hope, the Jedi are plainly seen as that: a new hope. The Jedi bring hope to the Alliance's cause. They are the beacon of light that faded away decades ago when the Empire was born. And for the Rebel Alliance, the Jedi are still the ones that will help them win this war against evil. Their intuition proved exact: without Luke, the Emperor would have won the war not only once, but twice...

Moreover, I would say it's not really a coincidence that the new Jedi-to-be in E7 bears the name "Rey". Like a ray of hope. I'm sure it was somewhat more intentional than purely coincidence. But that's just an intuition...  :tongue0024:
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2016, 08:04:05 PM »

... the name "Rey". Like a ray of hope.

OR maybe it's REY like your Mom help stopped the Death Star "Ray" from killing everyone.  Another good point to support Sinkie's daughter theory.   :P :scared0008: :P :D
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jjreason

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2016, 09:19:04 PM »

 :D

You guys will certainly laugh best, if you get to laugh last.  :winking0071:

Leia's role as part of the recovery mission for the plans:

I conclude that she must have had a 2 part mission: to safely transport the plans AND to make contact with Obi Wan.

Why do I believe this? Well we see her take custody of the plans in Rogue One, so that part is sorted out.

Next, the Blockade Runner is overrun directly above Tatooine. I have no idea about the respective positioning of Tatooine vs Scarif, but let's assume there is some distance between them. It's almost impossible that ship would have been in that space if that wasn't their destination... and the only reason they would have to go there is to reach Obi Wan.

This refutes any suggestion that Obi Wan was a Plan B or convenient contact, just based on where they were in space at the time, which is what I guess I always thought - "Hmmmm, we're lucky we're above Tatooine right about now!!!" seems pretty silly once I say it out loud. For sure they must have been headed there.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2016, 11:11:44 PM »

So I've yet to see the movie a 2nd time, and my memory is a little fuzzy from the blistering pace of the last act, but wasn't Leia already lined-up to visit Obi-Wan BEFORE they even knew they had the Death Star plans?

This is my recollection of events:
- Big Alliance meeting on Yavin IV, everyone gets scared and decide to NOT go after the DS plans
- Mothma and Bail Organa chat afterwards; I don't remember the exact reason but Mothma suggests that Organa make contact with his "Jedi friend in the desert". Organa can't do it himself because he has to go back to Alderaan to get blown up, but he will send someone else instead, someone he would "trust with his life" - Leia.
- So now Leia's blockade runner is all holed-up inside Adml Raddus' ship, ready to get underway to Tatooine in some cloak-and-dagger kind of way. Note: the DS plans are still not part of the mission yet.
- Then our ragtag group of heroes decides to "go rogue" and go after the DS plans themselves, screw the Alliance leaders. It's not until AFTER they start the battle on Scarif that Adml Raddus decide to take his fleet over there and help out, with Leia's blockade runner still tucked away with him.
- Skip through the battle, the plans finally get beamed up to Raddus' ship, and they're about to jump to hyperspace when "BAM", in pops the Devastator. Daddy Vader bee-lines it onto the Rebel flagship, hacking limbs and chopping heads off the whole way, and the poor RFT's do everything in their power to get those plans away from him. They're thinking, "Hey, there's this hot chick in a fast corvette sitting in our garage, lets toss her the plans so she can peel out of here with them before we all get dead"
- So Leia's got the plans, heads off on her ORIGINAL mission to track down Kenobi on Tatooine, but gets whacked by Vader as soon as they get there. No time to think this through, toss the plans into R2 and hope like hell he manages to come across Old Ben on his own.

Anyways, that was a long and drawn-out way of me saying, it was never their intention to bring the plans to Obi-Wan in the first place, that just sort of happened along the way. Though I do agree with JediPatrick, why wouldn't you want a Jedi Master and Republic General to help out? As Leia says, they didn't seem to have many other choices left - he was their only hope after all.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:14:47 PM by Wedge1021 »
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sinkie

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2016, 11:39:36 PM »

I think I can buy the idea that Leia was on a different mission and giving him the plans just became necessary, in addition to making contact.

However, the way it was implied in ANH was that she was attacked, possibly narrowly escaping more than once and then made a bee line for Tatooine when all hope of getting the plans directly to the Rebel Alliance looked dashed. As in, we're going to all die or the Empire keeps catching up with us so we can't lead them to the Rebel base. I know! My father confided in me about this old Jedi General hiding out on Tattooine! It's our only chance! Go!

So with that pretty much burned into our subconscious minds since childhood I think trying to wrap our heads around the notion that Kenobi was already to be contacted by Leia without any notion of handing him the plans (and of her piggybacking into battle before heading to to said mission) might seem less straightforward but can be made to work. I didn't even question it until Bespin 81 did! Now I'll have to pay more attention on subsequent viewings too!

Wedge1021

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2016, 11:48:22 PM »

Maybe it worked better for me because I never really viewed the ANH events the way you did. I just always thought she was going to find Obi-Wan and happened to have received the DS plans en route. Never really thought about it much past that. But then I never sat down to watch Ep4 until after seeing 5 and 6 and already being familiar with Star Wars, so maybe that changing one's perceptions.

And actually, speaking of not seeing 4 until after 5 and 6, I never really had that "totally awesome, never-seen-anything-like-it-before" experience that so many did back in 1977. But after seeing Rogue One, I really feel like I now have an idea of what that must have been like. This movie made me feel so awesome, and gave me a new appreciation for and attachment to A New Hope that I never had before. And like moviegoers back in 1977 got treated to a film and cinema technology that they'd never seen before, so too I felt that way after watching Rogue One. It's all I've been able to think about the past 4 days. I can't wait to see it again, and that's something I've never experienced from any movie before.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 11:54:36 PM by Wedge1021 »
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jjreason

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2016, 04:59:06 AM »


And actually, speaking of not seeing 4 until after 5 and 6, I never really had that "totally awesome, never-seen-anything-like-it-before" experience that so many did back in 1977. But after seeing Rogue One, I really feel like I now have an idea of what that must have been like. This movie made me feel so awesome, and gave me a new appreciation for and attachment to A New Hope that I never had before. And like moviegoers back in 1977 got treated to a film and cinema technology that they'd never seen before, so too I felt that way after watching Rogue One. It's all I've been able to think about the past 4 days. I can't wait to see it again, and that's something I've never experienced from any movie before.

I'm really glad for you, Wedge. That is awesome!
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ambasah

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2016, 06:41:35 AM »

it really is.

ANH remains my second favourite star wars film next to empire. I don't think it gets enough credit....so many amazing moments from that film. It was game changing to say the least.
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sinkie

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2016, 08:51:29 AM »

Ok I'm feeling dumb! After talking with my brother about the Kenobi "issue" it hit me that he TOTALLY FITS in with the main Plan A plan.

Leia could not hope to get the plans to the Rebels directly. She needed to maintain the cover that she was just a Senator and that her father was just the leader of Alderaan. She wasn't supposed to be bringing the plans to him directly (nor to Alerderaan for that matter) but had to get them in the rebels hands WITHOUT revealing the location of the base. And now, of course I see the obvious need, to put those in the hands of someone who was not only potentially super-skilled but also assumed to no longer even exist! Nobody would be looking for a dead man!

(not to mention there is the whole "will of the Force" thing at play here most likely!)

But yeah, Kenobi totally makes sense as part of Plan A. Or at least the very likely fall back plan. Like: If you can't get away cleanly Leia, head to Tatooine and send the plans down in a droid. Kenobi can get them to them if anyone can!

Bespin-81

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2016, 06:39:28 AM »

Leia could not hope to get the plans to the Rebels directly. She needed to maintain the cover that she was just a Senator and that her father was just the leader of Alderaan. She wasn't supposed to be bringing the plans to him directly (nor to Alerderaan for that matter) but had to get them in the rebels hands WITHOUT revealing the location of the base. And now, of course I see the obvious need, to put those in the hands of someone who was not only potentially super-skilled but also assumed to no longer even exist! Nobody would be looking for a dead man!

Makes sense.  I hadn't thought of the "nobody would look for a dead man" angle. 

I think part of my problem is I'd like the movies to give us a bit more information.  Like JJ mentioned Kenobi and the Clone Wars and, from that perspective, his viewpoint makes total sense.  With me, however, I haven't seen a good chunk of the Clone Wars, so I've never viewed Kenobi as someone with expertise concerning taking a planet. 

I've seen him on missions (i.e. rescuing Palpatine), I've seen his troops come to his aid (i.e. Cody and the cavalry in ROTS), but, though I've probably seen moments of him actually leading troops in Clone Wars, none of the episodes I fully watched really featured that side of him and certainly not on a planetary scale (that I know of). 

My preference is that movies work within their "movieverse".  For example, some of the discussion I've seen about R1 have had people referring to Catalyst to explain Galen's actions.  I don't think I should have to read a book to understand the movie and the motivations of its characters.  That's what I appreciate about the OT.  It feels complete in and of itself.  The PT was a bit sloppy that way.  I shouldn't have to watch the Clone Wars to find out who Sifo Dyas is.  Creating the Clone Wars is a huge deal in the movies.  The movies should tell me why it was done (by Sifo Dyas).  In comparison, Wuher's dislike of droids (or at least his dislike of droids being in the cantina) is not all that important so when none of the movies explain it, I don't feel like I missed anything.

In R1, Kenobi's contact isn't really explained (at least not to my satisfaction - though keep in mind, I've only seen it once, so a second viewing might clear things up).  It's not like it has to be fully explained, but at least point us in a direction.

Example #1
Mon Mothma: Defeating the Death Star won't be easy.  Maybe this would be a good time to contact your Jedi General friend you served with during the Clone Wars.

Example #2
Mon Mothma: We need to get those plans without raising the Empire's suspicion or revealing the location of our hidden base.

Bail Organa:  I have a Jedi friend everyone thinks is dead.  He'd be perfect.   


These may not be great examples, but give us something.

As it is, the conversation kind of sounds like:

Mon Mothma: Nobody's referenced Kenobi yet.  I think this would be a good time.

Bail Organa:  I agree.  Now that's done, I must return to Alderaan in time for its destruction, but not before giving a quick wink to the audience concerning Leia.

Anyways, that aside, I thinks there's been a lot of solid interpretations of this event here that have helped me to make better sense of Kenobi's involvement than the movie itself did, so as a fellow Star Wars fan, I'd just like to say thanks.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2016, 11:37:12 AM »

As it is, the conversation kind of sounds like:

Mon Mothma: Nobody's referenced Kenobi yet.  I think this would be a good time.

Bail Organa:  I agree.  Now that's done, I must return to Alderaan in time for its destruction, but not before giving a quick wink to the audience concerning Leia.

Ha! That gave me a good laugh at my desk on a boring Wednesday!  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:
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old man ben

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2016, 11:18:57 AM »

I finally got to see Rogue One yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it.  I am not into all the plot speculations that many of us seem to be discussing.  I just sat back and let it take me away for a couple of hours of pure fantasy.  Great cinematography, film score, heroic action and emotional dialogue.  I got right into it!  I  can't wait for another if it going to be like this.
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jjreason

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2016, 11:30:49 AM »

Glad you finally got to see it & that it lived up to your expectations! I'm reading the book right now & there hasn't been anything "extra" yet, it seems very much taken from the version of the film that made it into the theatres. Maybe a very few additional lines of dialogue that I can see getting cut.

It's a good story & I'm very glad they chose to tell it! Big Question #1 (How did they get those plans????) has been successfully answered - with any luck they'll do a great job of answering (So how did Han & Chewie become partners, anyhow????) with the next stand alone chapter.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2016, 11:39:26 AM »

Maybe now they can do a film about getting the DS2 plans - and we can find out exactly just how many Bothans died to get them!

Seriously though, if we didn't already have Rogue One, it might be interesting to see - with Palpatine / Coruscant scenes showing him leaking the plans to the Rebels, etc, and all the other political, behind-the-scenes spy stuff. I imagine it could easily become a bit too "talky" for some people like parts of the prequels were though. I'm happy to move on to other part of the universe. I'd really like to see stuff that is really disconnected from the OT though.

Oh, and still waiting for my Rogue Squadron film.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Rogue One - What did you think? (Possible spoilers)
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2017, 11:15:50 PM »

Went to see the film for the 2nd time this weekend, in regular non-3D this time.

It was "date with Dad" day with my nearly-7-yr-old daughter. Completely on her own, she chose to wear a Star Wars t-shirt and asked if she could wear her Sabine Wren helmet/mask to the show as well. It put a nice cap on the end of a pretty great Star Wars-y Christmas break this year. Both my girls had been watching the first season of Rebels on disc from the library off-and-on for the past couple months, and had been really into the characters, especially Sabine and Hera of course. So I bought them Seasons 1 and 2 on bluray for Christmas, as well as that Sabine mask, and some of the Rebels 5POA figures, all of which they were thrilled to get. I heard some Clone Wars characters start to pop up soon in Rebels, so I told the girls that now they have to watch that show first before they can go on to the rest of Rebels. Now they're eating that up, and particularly loving Ahsoka, as well as Padme when she pops up. We still have some empty wrapping paper tubes laying around, so it's been lightsaber battles every day for them. But girls don't like Star Wars, right? Stupid Hasbro.

Anyways, back to the movie. I wasn't sure how my daughter would react to it, but she seemed fine and paid pretty close attention to the whole thing. I explained certain things to her as it progressed, and I think it helped that we watched A New Hope the night before.

For myself, I loved it just as much as the first time, and it was great to be able to "look around" a bit more and try and notice some of the smaller Easter eggs, etc. I actually liked the job they did on Tarkin even better, but Leia was still just weird. I paid particular attention to the scenes involving the mission to Kenobi, and revolving around the transmission of the plans to the Rebel fleet. If you listen to dialogue particularly about the transmissions, you can tell that the writers did make an effort to make the continuity tie in to A New Hope (I had also paid attention to those lines during our Ep4 watch). I won't try and quote the lines as I can't recall their exact wording, but to me they do make for a feasible line of continuity.

Also, one observation about the main complaint I see from people - that the first half of the film is a bit slow and boring. (I've also seen comments that it either spends too much time setting up the characters, or not enough! I'm not sure how it can be both, but I guess different people have different desires for a film.) While watching Episode 4 the night before (for the hundredth time), I began thinking, man there's a lot of slow parts to the first half of this movie too. And you don't exactly learn boatloads about the characters either - we just now have the benefit of 40 years of unpacking that's been done on the plot. I'm betting if that film was released today, it'd get a lot of the same negative comments - slow first half, wooden acting, no character development, etc. Funny how that didn't matter to us so much when we were kids!
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