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Author Topic: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI  (Read 4719 times)

sinkie

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2017, 03:52:55 PM »

...did they have the "I've got a bad feeling about this" line?

I can't remember it if they did.

It was there...in the subtext...after about 10 minutes in.  :party0007:

jjreason

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2017, 06:49:53 AM »

More thoughts - please let me know your opinions on these things. Sorry to fill the thread I just need some way to vent this stuff out as I continue to try and get my head around all this new stuff.

Achto & the Luke/Rey (& Yoda!!!) storyline are fine, I basically have no issue with any of this. My 2 favourite lines in fact were "I've seen your daily routine - you're not busy." and "Failure, the greatest teacher, is."

Finn in the movie - kinda weird from beginning to end. Coupled with the almost cruelly short Phasma appearance (here she is, there she goes again!) I feel his story should have been different. I don't think he needed to get back to help on Crait, they almost should have left him with Phasma longer to get her the screen time she likely should have had.

Poe in the movie - I guess I'm ok in retrospect but during the movie I thought his coup attempt was way over the top, but he got what he deserved from Leia for that one.

Leia in the movie - good, but now they have to deal with her death off screen, which I'm not a fan of. It's a shame she won't get her true sending off in Ep IX as was apparently the intention. I'm sure they'll honour her somehow.

Canto Bight/DJ - wouldn't it have been something if Lando had been in that cell? I wonder if that was the initial plan but Billy Dee couldn't/wouldn't do it. It seemed so much like the perfect environment to find him in. I have a feeling we have to see DJ in IX, him leaving with the payout a la Han Solo had me waiting for him to swoop back in to save the day at the end... but it never came. Commentary on the global condition, I guess.

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napseeker

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2017, 08:33:23 AM »

I'm always amazed at how my opinion is almost the exact opposite of everyone else's.  I've made no secret that I thought The Force Awakens was a steaming piece of garbage (times 20) and really, any complaints about Luke not living up to his potential is more the fault of JJAbrams' poor writing skills, not Rian's.

I loved TLJ.  It had everything for me that TFA was completely and wholly missing: I felt tension/fear for the lives of all of the characters, both the old cast and the new cast. I remember feeling nothing, no tension at all, during the entirety of the boring TFA. There was never any sense of danger whatsoever to our heroes. 

I didn't like Finn in TFA (mostly due to the poor writing, not the fault of the actor) but I felt genuinely worried as he raced towards what seemed to be his doom.  I thought "No! Don't do it Finn!!!" which even caught me by surprise...

Rey who I so wanted to love in TFA ultimately was a disappointing Mary Sue who didn't really undergo any serious trials that would make me respect her as a potential hero - well in TLJ she gets the stuffing genuinely knocked out of her and faces some tough choices that had me guessing where she'd go. Unlike the last film, I felt nothing could be predicted or taken for granted; I love that.

Nothing had me in total shock more than Snoke's unexpected death and Kylo's rise to Supreme Leader - it makes sense to me for Rian to foil the audience expectation that Snoke would just hang around for the next film for his eventual defeat by Rey somehow. Nope!  Here we have Kylo doing what Vader could not do: the apprentice killed his master and became the new master. NICE.

I understand Luke's (momentary) temptation to kill Ben. He has firsthand experience with Vader and knows that he can't allow another Vader to be unleashed on the galaxy. It's the classic "if you could kill Hitler as a child", would you do it?  The key thing is that he stopped himself. He didn't actually try to do it and that for me, preserved Luke's character. I was also fearful that Luke wouldn't get a chance to show any bad-assery before he might've died. No need to worry at all.  And for anyone disappointed by his death, my only feeling is that Han had a far more insulting death - FAR MORE - I've already wrote about that in another thread. Luke died at peace. He didn't get gutted like a piece of meat or died like a punk. He came to save the fragile remains of the new Rebellion at the time of its greatest need and darkest moment. He saved Leia.  He got to die a hero, unlike Han. That's good enough for me.

This film makes up for TFA in spades. Two thumbs up from me.
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jjreason

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2017, 09:13:34 AM »

Glad to hear Disney finally got something right for you!
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jedijaynumber1

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2017, 09:46:51 AM »

jjreason I talked to Billy Dee Williams at Grand Rapids Comic Con in November I asked him if Disney had approached him for anything he said no, I agree a Lando appearance would have been awesome, another opportunity for him to show was when Leia called for help at the base.

This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?
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jjreason

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2017, 09:58:01 AM »

I think a lot of people are finding it jarring, for sure. I've read lots of good arguments FOR and AGAINST the more polarizing parts of the movie.

I found the development of Reylo to be very intriguing. There is lots of potential for them to have a great ending to this story.

Some things I wanted I didn't get - more info about Snoke, anything further than what he we had about Poe & Finn.... but you can't have it all.

The critical things here were the treatment of Luke, which I thought was perfect, and the treatment of Leia which I didn't like the ending of at all. That's where my trouble lies in deciding how much I liked this movie.
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Bespin-81

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2017, 10:49:05 AM »

This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?

That's an interesting question. 

It kind of reminds of what I've read about the Hasbro situation with Star Wars toys.  Hasbro won 't make play sets because they say they don't sell.  For TLJ, they make a giant BB-8 with a bad guy base in his belly and ask $200 for it.  It's not going to sell.  Does not selling a bad play set prove all play sets don't sell?  For Hasbro, it probably will and it'll be an excuse to never make a Death Star or Jabba's Sail Barge.

With TLJ, it's proving to be a disappointment with the general audience.  But, it's a live action "chapter" of Star Wars.  It's going to make money.  How many of us who didn't like it will attend a second or third screening?  I suspect many.  It's like that SNL skit about buying Star Wars toys.  We'll see it once because it's Star Wars.  If we don't like it, we'll see it again anyway to confirm we don't like it because maybe we missed something.  And if we still don't like, we'll still go a third time just to make sure.  Then we'll buy the bluray/DVD/digital combo of a movie we don't like because we don't want an incomplete collection.

Will Disney/Lucasfilm look more at the dissatisfaction or the profits?  I have no idea.

I suspect this may, however, increase the pressure for Solo to perform well. 
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jedijaynumber1

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2017, 10:57:12 AM »

The force awakens creates the questions about snoke and Rey's parents and set this movie up to be an easy home run, I just can't understand why the two main questions from the previous episode were thrown in the garbage. the Last Jedi not only is a wreck but also effects TFA and makes it a little less relavant, JJ Abrams will have his hands full fixing star wars in episode 9

I thought almost every character in The Last Jedi was out of character, the bold rush into danger help his friends Luke actually didn't leave the island he's probably got too much milking to do, Chewie was down graded to a chauffer, the undeniable brash R2 showed Luke one projection for about 5 seconds, Leia all of a sudden and use the force to keep from freezing in space, move herself in space and keep the pressurization of the ship from bursting out as she enters the ship, and I'm with you on not giving her a send off, if you didn't know Carrie had passed, you wouldn't know it from any hint on screen. Finn, Rose, Phasma have no purpose in the film, BB8 is all of a sudden a super droid, Poe is a mutineer, Snoke is not the protected mysterious all seeing master, Admiral Ackbar was a passing mention, and replaced by Hodor who no one really cares about. Rey and Kylo where about the only ones who were even close to being on point. Episode 8 goes against everything Star Wars, the resistance might as well call the autobots or star fleet for some help lol
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jedijaynumber1

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2017, 11:05:11 AM »

This movie did have great parts just not enough to make it a good movie, the audience score on rotten tomatoes now ranks lower than the phantom menace, its raking in the bucks though. I wonder even if die hard star wars fans and a lot of viewers don't like it, but brings in tons at the box office if Disney will look at it as a success, and model more movies after it?

That's an interesting question. 

It kind of reminds of what I've read about the Hasbro situation with Star Wars toys.  Hasbro won 't make play sets because they say they don't sell.  For TLJ, they make a giant BB-8 with a bad guy base in his belly and ask $200 for it.  It's not going to sell.  Does not selling a bad play set prove all play sets don't sell?  For Hasbro, it probably will and it'll be an excuse to never make a Death Star or Jabba's Sail Barge.

With TLJ, it's proving to be a disappointment with the general audience.  But, it's a live action "chapter" of Star Wars.  It's going to make money.  How many of us who didn't like it will attend a second or third screening?  I suspect many.  It's like that SNL skit about buying Star Wars toys.  We'll see it once because it's Star Wars.  If we don't like it, we'll see it again anyway to confirm we don't like it because maybe we missed something.  And if we still don't like, we'll still go a third time just to make sure.  Then we'll buy the bluray/DVD/digital combo of a movie we don't like because we don't want an incomplete collection.

Will Disney/Lucasfilm look more at the dissatisfaction or the profits?  I have no idea.

I suspect this may, however, increase the pressure for Solo to perform well. 

About 5 minutes after the movie ended I did want to see it again to make sure I hated it! lol After sleeping on it for a night I knew there was just too much wrong with it, and I thought to myself, I'm not going back to support it, I 'm not buying any merch from the film and as much as it pains me to not have the full collection on Blu-ray I won't buy it unless its second hand or clearance lol
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Cmdr Bacara

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2017, 11:23:41 AM »

I didn't hate it, but I'm not sure I really liked it.  There were some good scenes, but the Yoda appearance and the floating Leia scenes really annoyed me.  I also found the OJ Simpson style slow chase between the 1st Order and the Resistance Cruiser to be silly.

Usually I see each movie twice but I don't want to bother seeing TLJ again.  The audience as I left last night seemed underwhelmed also.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 04:25:18 PM by Cmdr Bacara »
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brianakarobin

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2017, 12:42:01 PM »

Great comments in this thread.

One point I would make is that I don't think audiences don't like this movie. Super fans like us may be griping about it, but the average casual fan and non-fan seem to love this movie. Even with the Fanboy hate, it rates at 8.0/10 on IMDB, suggesting that others must really like it, and it scored an "A" cinema score from audiences on opening night.

JJ - I agree that we haven't seen the last of DJ. He is a Han/Lando type character for me, and I also thought that we may see him come back later in TLJ to help save the day. He seems like he is all about the money, but I think he does care somewhere behind all the gruff.

Several people have mentioned, and I agree, that Chewie and the droids (C-3P0 and especially R2) are under-utilized in the movies. I would like to see more of them. And with all of the pointless scenes (Luke milking the teats of that beast, or even spearing the fish, which was cool, but not needed, the communication with Maz leading to the Master Codebreaker who they never even used, etc., etc.), they could have scrapped those and given us more of them. However, I would trade that for more of Luke.

I think I have come to terms with Luke's death scene. It is actually a good scene overall. What I don't like is they never gave Luke enough to show us before that. He got one fight scene, and even that was a force projection and not real. I would have liked to see Luke whoop some a$$ one more time. Here's hoping for a Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight standalone film sometime :fighting0003:

I am sure I am in the minority in this respect, but among the prequels and the sequels, the movie that I came out of the most pumped after the first viewing was actually TPM!! I think the final duel with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Darth Maul made up for so much for me at the time, and I was only 23, so I didn't totally hate the Jar Jar and kid Anakin stuff. I am in complete agreement with JJ, though, that after multiple viewings, I and II just don't hold up, especially, for me, II - I can barely tolerate most of it due to the crappy romance. I would rather watch VII than either of those, and I expect VIII will rank higher for me, as well.

It is fun to see how different our tastes can be, though - we are all huge Star Wars fans, but the same scene can be loved or hated - many have commented on Luke and Yoda's scene being their favourite (it was one of mine, except for the burning of the tree), while others (Cmdr Bacara, for example) found it really annoying. And then there's Napseeker, who seems to have the complete opposite view from JJ on just about everything! It's so hard to please us fans! :scared0008:

It seems to me that most of us liked Rogue One, whereas it has been very mixed for VII and VIII, which I think just goes to show that it is our attachment to the characters of the OT and our desire for how we think they should be used (as opposed to how they have been) that clouds our ability to enjoy it - Rogue One had very little involvement of established characters, so we were just happy for the story and characters to go wherever the director wanted to take us, and we enjoyed the ride. I still think (or maybe just hope) that this is why I will really like IX, as the expectations on OT characters will be nearly irrelevant, as they will mostly be dead.

dangerlinto

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2017, 01:11:23 PM »

The Leia scene needed something else - tough to do when Fisher passed though.

Blue Milk Luke was 10 seconds of my life I will never get back. 

Phasma was unnecessary.

I liked Snoke.  Annoyed that we never found out who he was.

I liked Luke (other than Blue Milk).  Hamill did a great job.  I also liked Yoda - I can see where other's didn't. 

R2 playing the holo leia message was the best moment in the movie.

But I want to complain about one thing and make you think about it

If this movie was *really* daring, take all of Vice Admiral Holdo's lines, and give them to a still living Admiral Ackbar. Everything from stunning the group to sacrificing himself.

Movie is so much better IMHO if Ackbar doesn't just die off-screen.  Sorry Laura Dern, you were cute but the wrong choice by a mile.
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Bespin-81

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2017, 02:11:29 PM »

About 5 minutes after the movie ended I did want to see it again to make sure I hated it! lol After sleeping on it for a night I knew there was just too much wrong with it, and I thought to myself, I'm not going back to support it, I 'm not buying any merch from the film and as much as it pains me to not have the full collection on Blu-ray I won't buy it unless its second hand or clearance lol

I don't disagree.  The "see it three times" thing was a bit of a tongue and cheek way of saying a bad Star Wars movie will still make big bucks.

One of the things not sitting well with me about TLJ is that Star Wars is a classic good vs evil story.  Dark side.  Light side.  Both powerful.  Very powerful.  TLJ introduced Canto Blight and the idea the good and bad guys are all just puppets of arm dealers.  It could be argued it's just the Resistance and First Order and not the Empire and Rebellion, but still, it lessens the primary rivalry and introduces an unnecessary baddie.     

In Star Wars, the good rises to fight the bad.  Will anyone rise to fight these arms dealers? 

(On a side note, I didn't mind when this idea was addressed in Iron Man 3.  I actually liked that movie.  But it doesn't, in my opinion, work in a Star Wars movie.  Maybe an episode of Rebels, but not a movie. And you shouldn't add a new out of nowhere big "bad guy" in the second to last movie of a nine movie story when they're not needed.  The fight between the Dark side and Light side is enough.  And, yes, if they're purposely stirring the pot or letting it be stirred in order to profit off civil war and the tragedy it creates, they are a "big" baddies.) 

Like jedijay, I don't plan on getting the DVD. 

Before the movie, I bought a 5poa Rose, but that was based on price matching it for $2.97 (and a good idea she'd be a main character).  I have no plans on picking up any more TLJ figures - even Jedi Exile Luke (I already have a Jedi Master Luke though).  Drop the price to under $5 and I'll consider it, but it's not a done deal by a long shot. 

Before the movie, I saw a salt planet speeder for just under $23.  Seemed like a good deal (though I passed). I don't think even a $10 price tag would inspire a consideration of a purchase now. 

Before the movie, I planned on grabbing a playskool TIE Silencer for my kids.  Now, not so much.  I still might, but the price has definitely gotta be right.  It is a cool looking ship after all.

Before the movie, I could put on TFA and enjoy it as a fun ride set in the Star War universe.  (Plus, I really like Ford's Han.  I didn't know what an old Han would even be like, but when I saw Ford in TFA, I thought he nailed it.) Now, I don't care to watch it again any time soon.

Before the movie, I thought Kylo Ren's mask was bad guy cool.  TLJ told me it's not bad guy cool.  It's a sign of weakness.  Masks are one of my favourite things in the Star War universe so I didn't like seeing one of the better ones being, in my view, put down.  It's tough seeing a mask that's been ridiculed (and the film does nothing to counter that ridicule) as bad guy cool anymore.

I'm hopeful E9 will make things better.

The reaction is interesting.  On RT 93% of critics like it.  Audiences - 57%. 

I'm interested in seeing how the toy aisles empty - or don't - in the following weeks.  That will help tell me if audiences actually like TLJ.  After all, Disney can please movie critics all day long, but at the end of that day the stockholders will have their say.  And they want profit.  Not praise.

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jjreason

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2017, 02:28:17 PM »

The "see it 3x" thing IS a joke, but honestly I do feel I need to see it 2-3x before I can form an opinion. AOTC - loved it the first time, it wasn't until viewing 3 that the true nature of the bad started to outweigh the good.

ROJ - first viewing as a Gr5 student I remember being disappointed in them using "another" Death Star, but that was quickly rectified by them providing the full hour-long climax that was needed to close that story properly on all the open fronts.

It's not abnormal or unusual for me to feel uncomfortable after the first viewing. I'm going to try & drag the wife for a show tonight & I'll see if it has settled after that.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2017, 02:50:29 PM »

Wow...I was shock to see that after 81,484 people viewed this film only 57% liked it. Disney gets a "D" grade for this film.   

Surprising that it would score so low considering the valuable information it provided us with.  For example : if you look in a mirror you will see your reflection or how to milk an alien properly. This is ground breaking cinema.

I agree with nap seeker, this is best Star Wars movie that I have ever seen, in the last 2 days.   Honestly it is.  This movie makes me excited for the re-release of the Star Wars Holiday Special from 1978.

All joking aside, I am looking forward to seeing it again.

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