Snowtroopers.ca - Star Wars collecting news and information in Canada.

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Looking into the forum errors


SPONSORS

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
January 21, 2018, 01:40:32 PM

Login with username, password and session length


59 Guests, 0 Users
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10   Go Down

Author Topic: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI  (Read 4695 times)

cash_fan

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
  • Tell that to Kanjiklub
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2017, 03:02:21 PM »

Replying to all but not quoting anyone specific.  I don't want to mess with Canadian Jedi again. :happy0025:

A few more things after letting the dust settle in my mind some:

I can't help but notice, TFA's biggest criticism was it was just a re-hash.  Did nothing new.  Only copied ANH.  Now the biggest gripe about TLJ is it's too different.  It's not like the other Star Wars.  This alludes to what brianakarobin said about us old guards letting go of the original characters.  We all had a vision/image of how they should have been treated, and it didn't happen. 

Another big criticism is Snoke being sliced up.  We knew nothing about him.  (That's going to be fleshed out in books/comics now.)  That's not a fair criticism from anyone over 35.  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now??  Kylo did what Vader couldn't!  Vader pleaded for Luke to join him and take out the Emperor, because Vader couldn't do it himself.  Kylo took out Snoke, and then pleaded for Rey to join him.  Kylo is turning/turned into a badder dude than Vader.

Rey's parents.  Not gonna comment much on this.  I hope they leave it they way it is.  Darkness rises and light to meet it.  Rey doesn't have to be a daughter of a Jedi, Obi-Wan, Yoda, these were great Jedi without a [known] lineage.  She doesn't have to be a Skywalker.   

The kid at the end.  If you read The Legends of Luke Skywaker it hints about this a bit.  The legend of what happened to Luke on Crate will inspire many young (lings?) to rise. 

If you didn't catch it, Rey has the Jedi books on the Falcon right when they escape.  Finn opens a drawer to get a blanket and there they are. 
Logged
Cash fan, as in Johnny Cash

cash_fan

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
  • Tell that to Kanjiklub
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2017, 03:06:56 PM »

The "see it 3x" thing IS a joke, but honestly I do feel I need to see it 2-3x before I can form an opinion. AOTC - loved it the first time, it wasn't until viewing 3 that the true nature of the bad started to outweigh the good.

When I finished AOTC for the first time I sat there and said to my brother "That was just as good as Return of the Jedi."  (I was in love with Padme too)

All these years later I actually find TPM better than AOTC.  I love Christopher Lee as Dooku though. 
Logged
Cash fan, as in Johnny Cash

Bespin-81

  • Empire
  • Snowtrooper Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
  • Ash for the win.
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2017, 04:00:35 PM »

  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 

In Episode 7, we meet new "Dark Side" users - though that term is not used, they act like what we've known.  One of them, we're told was a Jedi in training.  The other - nothing.  But we can see he's old.  Where was he during the events of E1-E6?  Who trained him?  Is he Sith?  If not, what?

I thought the same thing you did about the Emperor and if this was a new Star Wars and not Ep7, I don't think it'd bug me too much.  But, as it is, it does.  Am I to believe that bad guys powerful in the Force can just randomly pop up with ready made armies in the Star War universe?  And if Light rises to meet Dark, who did the Force rise up to meet Snoke?  Rey balances Ren... 

Is Snoke perhaps the balance to Luke? 

Just spit balling here (didn't expect to go this way), but is that a reasonable possibility? 

Maybe Snoke is just some rich old dude (gold robe and wealth to buy a fleet from Canto Bight arms dealers) who the Force chose to balance itself against Luke so, like Rey, he's untrained, but powerful.

I could perhaps accept that.  Rey's not a Jedi.  Snoke's not a Sith.  The explanation of Light and Dark sides of the Force needing to balance one another is given in the movie and we know it can happen because of "no training needed" Rey.  That would actually be good enough for me. 

But I want something.  I want some kind of reasonable movie based explanation of where this powerful in the Force evil guy came from. 
Logged

jedijaynumber1

  • Empire
  • Recruit
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • judge me by my size, do you?!!
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2017, 04:16:12 PM »

Mulling it over for a bit now, the biggest disappointment is the way Luke was written, I know what I wanted to see, and to be honest we deserved to see the old heroic Luke in action, after nearly 30 years of waiting to see it again Disney teased us with it at the end of TFA, then we so eagerly and patiently waitied to see a true hero, a jedi legend a childhood idol take one more crack at saving the galaxy and fight the dark side, but , we got a force projection and a moof milker hermit.

Disney made me want it, they recruited, Ford, Fisher Hamill, Daniels, Oz, even James Earl Jones in Rogue One, then left us on a cliff for two years, if they were going to just make up what ever they wanted and not stick to the true nature of the characters then why even bother putting them in?? Why go back and get the original cast, and make them ridiculous??

Luke Skywalker milked a sea monster....... 

 
Logged

jedijaynumber1

  • Empire
  • Recruit
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • judge me by my size, do you?!!
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2017, 04:34:32 PM »

I hope some employees of Disney reads these boards, star wars is a 40 year old institution, with established characters, it has fans spending fortunes on it, they are passionate about it, countless books, films and incredible enthusiastic fans. Unfortunately I now feel like I have to say it, here goes.

Dear Disney:

Don't put guardians of the galaxy in episode 9
Logged

jjreason

  • <A+ Trader>
  • Administrator
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6873
  • "So long, Princess."
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2017, 04:37:53 PM »

I thought Luke kicked tremendous butt by being able to cast his form across the galaxy. I loved that. To me, Yoda should have taken a similar tact to beat Dooku easily in EpII... I never understood why he went toe to toe. Luke's story I'm good with. It's Leia spacewalk & them not writing her out of the story properly I can't resolve yet.

Snoke - the visual dictionary confirms he is NOT Sith, but provides little else. Coming soon to a book store near you I'd have to assume, which I'm not satisfied with personally. The needed to give more.

Phasma - I'm really wondering if bringing her back was a joke. We'll have to see if it happens again in IX now.... You killed Phasma, you bastard!
Logged

jedijaynumber1

  • Empire
  • Recruit
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
  • judge me by my size, do you?!!
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2017, 04:52:37 PM »

I thought Luke kicked tremendous butt by being able to cast his form across the galaxy. I loved that. To me, Yoda should have taken a similar tact to beat Dooku easily in EpII... I never understood why he went toe to toe. Luke's story I'm good with. It's Leia spacewalk & them not writing her out of the story properly I can't resolve yet.

Indeed Obiwan taught him well, but wouldn't you have just about died and gone to heaven if Luke with force ghost Yoda watching behind him lifted that x wing out of the water, flew in to confront Kylo, "for real" the proxy fight felt like a slap to Luke, I remember thinking in the theater, when luke faded away, did he just end it himself? force suicide? at this point, I wonder
Logged

sinkie

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2017, 05:07:21 PM »

Just got back from a second screening with my kids and...I can't explain it...I'm honestly baffled by my response...but now I really really like it. Not kidding. I think TFA had me guessing they were going in a very specific direction and they ended up going elsewhere that I was not expecting.

This time around, much of what I found jarring was of course no longer so.

I'd still love to know more about Snoke but at the same time I realize he was in many ways there as something for Kylo to reject on "the other side of the fence"...he rejects both mentor/masters, he rejects both the dark/light. And perhaps this is what he thought Vader was all about. He was never really a Jedi and never really a Sith fully. Or that he was able to straddle the line and not go Palpatine level dark.

And despite the Canto Bight stuff (which is the weakest part of the film IMO), I find it quite fun and intriguing. Especially the "special philosophy" that seems to be motivating Kylo that I feel like I only fully get while watching the film.

I started to feel this was more of a ROTJ film than ESB for sure. The silly didn't feel quite as silly this time around. And the audience I was with this time was more into it, cheering and laughing and such.

I hope I don't end up hating it again on a 3rd viewing! I'm going to wait a while for that.

Anyone catch the books Rey has taken aboard the Falcon? In that drawer she opens at the end to get something out of? Clever too that if you watch Luke's legs during the Kylo battle, he makes no traces in the salt mineral. They even deliberately give us a shot of Kylo shifting his weight and make a mark in close up!

And I can't be sure but I thought the kid who took the broom at the end actually has it jump into his hand a few inches...but I might have just blinked. Did he use the Force?

jjreason

  • <A+ Trader>
  • Administrator
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6873
  • "So long, Princess."
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2017, 06:09:50 PM »

I asked the same thing & YES, he used the Force. My theory is that Rian Johnston planted the seed for his own trilogy right there. Time will tell.

Logged

Cmdr Bacara

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 733
  • I whacked Ki-Adi Mundi
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2017, 06:34:19 PM »

Has George Lucas passed any comment on TLJ?  I know he didn't really like TFA, not sure if that's because they didn't use his ideas for it or not.

Also did anyone else notice the secret Jedi texts from the tree Yoda burned were in a drawer on the Falcon at the end (Finn opens and grabs something and you can clearly see the beige spined book)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 06:39:20 PM by Cmdr Bacara »
Logged

jjreason

  • <A+ Trader>
  • Administrator
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6873
  • "So long, Princess."
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2017, 07:58:52 PM »

George said it was "beautifully made", which I took to be him saying something quasi-positive that Disney wouldn't blanch at & ask him to retract.
Logged

cash_fan

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
  • Tell that to Kanjiklub
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2017, 09:25:27 PM »

  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 


The first time we hear the word Sith spoken on screen is in TPM.  Not in the OT.
Logged
Cash fan, as in Johnny Cash

cash_fan

  • Empire
  • Sith Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 691
  • Tell that to Kanjiklub
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2017, 10:45:30 PM »

Just one more comment before I head off to watch it again....

Episode IX doesn't have to directly follow TLJ time wise.  I think it will be set several years later.  They could even start with Leia's funeral. 

Logged
Cash fan, as in Johnny Cash

Bespin-81

  • Empire
  • Snowtrooper Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
  • Ash for the win.
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2017, 11:05:14 PM »

  We didn't know who the Emperor was in ESB, just that he was the big bad leader.  Then he gets offed in ROTJ and we still didn't know anything about him.  Why is this a big deal now?? 

For me, I think it's irksome because up to know, the story we've been told is that there's a Light side and Dark side of the Force.  Trained Light side users are Jedi.  Dark side users are Sith.  There are only two Sith.  (Yes, I think it's tough to believe only 2 Sith can be Dark side users, but that's the world the movies showed me.)

They both die in Episode 6. 


The first time we hear the word Sith spoken on screen is in TPM.  Not in the OT.

Agreed. 

I'm looking at the whole 1-6 story.  That's the story leading into E7 and not just E4-6.  In E8, Luke even mentions Sidious by name and the Jedi's failure to stop him.  Which, from a certain point of view, sums up the story of E1-3 quite succinctly. So the prequels and their lessons about the nature of the Sith are very much a part of the story leading into E8 which means the Emperor doesn't need to be called Darth Sidious or referred to as a Sith for those terms to "exist" in the OT.  So even though the term Sith may not be used in the OT, in the context of E8, it doesn't matter as the Emperor of the OT is understood by Luke to be Darth Sidious, one of the two Sith Lords allowed according to the rules of the Sith.     

Regarding the Emperor in the OT, I'm fairly sure he's mentioned on the blockade runner.  An officer is concerned news about Leia's capture getting out to the senate could create sympathy for the rebellion and Vader basically says to not worry as the Emperor is going to get rid of the senate. 

I'll have to watch again to hear exactly what's said, but fairly sure he's mentioned in 4, then, of course, shown (via hologram in 5), and then we meet him in 6.

Either way, in Star Wars (ANH) we're dropped into a story where the Empire exists.  We know Vader's not the leader so meeting a leader later on isn't surprising to me.  I don't need a backstory for why the Empire has a leader.  (If the Empire didn't have a leader, well, that I would probably want to understand.)

When the prequels came along, they showed how the Empire came into existence and how that leader rose to power. 

Flash forward to TFA, we're dropped into a story where, like ANH, there's a battle going on.  The problem for me is I've seen the previous chapter and there's no hint of the Empire surviving. The Rebels won.  Statues were toppled.  Fireworks enjoyed.  Yet this new bad guy army dresses very much like the Empire, flies ships almost exactly like them, and talks (Kylo Ren at least) about them (well, about one of them any way).  How?  Why?

E1-3 explain how we got to the Emperor in E4.  E4-6 do not explain how we got to the Supreme Leader in E7.

If the First Order looked nothing like the Empire, I could buy into them being an entirely new villain. (A force from beyond the Outer Rim maybe.)  The Empire is dead and they (like classic villains) want to rule the universe so they take hold of an opportunity to do so.  In that case, like the Empire in 4-6, I'm not curious why they have a leader.  They should have a leader (or leadership council).  And I'm not in need of a leader backstory as he's a bad guy doing what a lot of standard villains do - looking to rule everything.   

Thing is the FO is basically a carbon copy of the Empire.  Why?  I understand that from a marketing point of view, but the movie hasn't explained why.  Why do they dress like the Empire?  Did they find unused Empire gear and went with it to save money?  Did they want to wear similar outfits to put fear in the Republic (oh no, we thought the Empire was dead, but it's not!)?  Is the whole First Order just Kylo Ren on a bigger scale (people who want to be like something they admire)?  Or maybe the First Order is the Empire; created in secret by loyalists who waited for the right time for revenge.  Other than "antagonist", I don't really know who they are; why they do what they do.  Kylo Ren, yes.  But the FO, no. 

The FO is aware of the Empire.  Snoke leads the FO.  Where was he for the events of E1-6 - the rise and fall of the Empire?  Why are we only hearing about him now?  Was he a fan of Palpatine? A rival who couldn't match him so he stayed hidden?  Did he work for the Empire?  Was he a rebel or someone in the republic who felt betrayed and wanted revenge? 

Why has he copied the Empire? 

I think his ship was the first thing I've seen that I couldn't connect to the Empire visually, but everything else is a copy. 
   
So, ya, I want to know more about the origins of the FO and it's leader. 

In TLJ, we're told they buy their weapons.  How do they afford to do that?  Where's Snoke getting all this cash from that he can build an army by himself to rival any threat from the entire republic?  (And, if he has all this cash, why does he want to spend it on conquering the republic?)  Or maybe he didn't do it by himself.  I don't know.  Maybe a book has told why, but, I don't want to have to buy a book to understand a movie.  A well made movie (or movie series) shouldn't need outside study material to be understood. 

So, ya, in short, for me, because of where Snoke first appears in the over all story, I find the amount of info given about him so far to be insufficient.
Logged

Bespin-81

  • Empire
  • Snowtrooper Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
  • Ash for the win.
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII - THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2017, 11:17:55 PM »

Just one more comment before I head off to watch it again....

Episode IX doesn't have to directly follow TLJ time wise.  I think it will be set several years later.  They could even start with Leia's funeral.

I think you're right.

I don't know how they'll handle Leia, but suspect some time will have passed allowing for the rise of Force sensitive Resistance fighters across the galaxy. 

Right now, I'm leaning towards the story of the Saga being changed into what Luke talked about.  The Jedi basically monopolized the Force.  This was arrogant and lead to the Sith taking over the galaxy. (E1-3).  This lead to pain and suffering (E4-6).  To avoid this happening again, the Force must be accessible for everyone and not just the Jedi (E7-9). 

I'm not saying I like this.  Just guessing what the new story line will be as I suspect a new story uniting all the episodes together is needed (as it can no longer be the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin or the hero journey of Luke) and this one could work based on what I saw in E8.

On a positive note, if anyone remembers fan trailers for E1, you might recall one that added sabers to a battle scene from Braveheart or some such movie.  Maybe in E9, we'll get that.  E9 could be quite epic. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 10   Go Up
 

Recent

Links

   













Members
  • Total Members: 2022
  • Latest: MaxRebo
Stats
  • Total Posts: 169112
  • Total Topics: 14344
  • Online Today: 79
  • Online Ever: 406
  • (March 18, 2008, 03:52:35 PM)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 59
Total: 59

Page created in 0.283 seconds with 38 queries.