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April 22, 2018, 02:46:50 AM

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Author Topic: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX  (Read 2581 times)

sinkie

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2017, 10:51:08 PM »

Thumbs up JediPatrick! Like Darth McAdam that scene with Han/Kylo pretty much punches me in the gut every time.

And I like that take jj...hope you're right. I have my own theory about what is going on in that scene but mine is much more convoluted. Your take and my theory could still work together but I like your take on its own just fine!

bob

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2017, 04:23:19 AM »

I'm going to go ahead & drop my theory - don't read any further if you don't want to have the story ruined by my mutant future-reading abilities.  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:




I think Han turned on the lightsaber & killed himself. He saw the Kylo couldn't do it & grabbed his hands which activated the button. He saved Kylo whom he knew Snoke would kill if Han didn't die. Kylo's story will be the well hidden good guy looking like a bad guy/Snape killing Dumbledore routine. Betcha 3 tacos on this one.

 wow! thats pretty good and i havent heard that yet.

 as far as people across the net thinking Han should of died in a better way i never got that one! like the big post about this said is so true! hes Han Solo! he survives and gets away with basically everything thru dumb luck and just being Han Solo. confronting his own son isnt anything like that and totally diff..it really was one of the only dignified way for someone crucial to the OT to die. they wrote that well.

 the theory about Han actually turning on the saber would be cool! im pretty sure Kylo sorta nudges forward as he turns it on which sorta throws that theory away :/ but it would be cooler! you should mail that to them when they make the special edition and they can change that scene a little. haha ;)

 TFA has other boring problems that bug me but it did have its strengths too. anywho! 
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napseeker

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2017, 05:46:50 PM »

I'm not sure why people have these theories when JJ Abrams himself has stated that during that scene:
a) Kylo Ren didn't know if he was going to kill Han or not, and it was basically a last-second decision to do it
b) after killing Han, I think both JJ and the novel point out that Kylo expected to feel a surge of power because having killed his own father, he thought it would link him closer to the dark side but it didn't and he felt confusion.

None of these things would confirm that theory at all. I still contend Han did die a pointless, stupid death not worthy of his iconic status. He should've gotten mortally wounded trying to protect Rey from being killed by Kylo - having to face a choice of saving Rey or shooting, maybe killing, his own son, he chose to save Rey... but Kylo deflected his bolt back at him, fatally wounding him.  Han is helped by Rey, Chewie and Finn back to the Falcon where he insists on flying them all to safety in the Falcon.

Once out in space, he finally dies in the seat of the ship that he has flown for decades... not gutted like a piece of meat and thrown into the flames. He could've even done a symbolic handoff of the "keys to the Falcon" to Rey before dying, whispering Leia's name as his final words. Cut to: Leia, back at the base, hearing his last words through the Force and breaking into tears (showing no restraint at his death, she sobs and weeps, rather than just sit there passing gas, AND she later hugs Chewie). THAT is the death he should've gotten... a heroic one. Not an effin crap one. Sorry, but I loathe this movie more for this reason more than any other... never mind the notion that it turns all of the successes of Luke, Han and Leia into ashes. Han isn't even a competent smuggler (note how he jokes that his massive ship is devoid of a crew because they all got killed off by the live cargo - no wonder Rey didn't want to join up with him!).

edit: even if Kylo were secretly a "good guy" people seem to have conveniently forgotten he executed an old man at the start of the movie and ordered a massacre of an entire village of people - definitely NOT the actions of a good guy even if he's trying to secretly sneak up on the real bad guy... do the ends justify the means?  If he kills Snoke after earning his trust, is Kylo really a hero or heroic?  By killing men, women, and children?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 06:22:23 PM by napseeker »
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sinkie

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2017, 09:27:22 PM »

I don't think he's a good guy at all. But I could see someone like Kylo (Ben Skywalker-Solo) given his family history and lineage actually tinkering with the dark side in order to do the most massive move against the Force ever! In realizing that this conflict between light and dark will go on and on and on and billions upon billions will suffer and die, taking on the burden to get as close to the dark as you can (meaning having to actually go pretty dark in order to convince...and then have it forever dominate your destiny) and end it all would be a massive, taxing undertaking. You couldn't just say, yeah I'm a bad guy but spare this village, let the old man live and ok sure dad I'll come with you right after I complete my dark side training. So his goal might be to do something that would in the long run be better for the galaxy but in the short term he's got to be convincingly dark in order to infiltrate and end it once and for all...requiring massive personal sacrifice: his own happiness, life, family, friends etc.

...but I don't think I'm right, just a theory I toy with to see if it sticks when I watch the film. So far I feel it could but probably won't. Even though that scene where he speaks to "grandfather" is odd. I mean Anakin went back to the light right? Wouldn't he have been told this? So why speak to a helmet and try to get inspiration from this reformed dark lord? Who ended up being someone who "started" to take down the dark side by being close it...though he did not "finish" it, he only took down Palpatine...see what I'm saying?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 12:05:55 AM by sinkie »
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jjreason

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2017, 11:18:52 PM »

Neither a nor b preclude the theory, Nap. He would feel confused if he wasn't exactly sure what the hell happened immediately - then the realization would set in. The surge of power he was expecting but didn't get may have been mitigated by the fact that the lightsaber ignited while he was still conflicted about what to do - tell me he doesn't look surprised when you watch it next time.

The novels haven't always been known to beat people over the face with discrete plot points - for example the EpI novelization isn't at all clear about Palpatine in fact being Darth Sidious from what I recall (the movie makes it much more apparent than the novel did) and JJ isn't going to come out & state something like that when it may be revealed later on as a key moment. Not saying that it will be mind you, just my guess as to what's going to happen.

And I'll throw in an opinion here about the OT characters: NONE of them is going to die the death they deserved. In 1983 they were all going to live to be happy senior citizens and die with the galaxy at peace & the force in balance. That's the death they all deserved - the fact this entire new crisis has arisen ruins all of that, sadly. I can see the side of the people who decide the new trilogy isn't "their" Star Wars, the same way I have with the EU and Special Edition revisions.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:22:04 PM by jjreason »
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brianakarobin

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2017, 06:06:32 AM »

I don't think he's a good guy at all. But I could see someone like Kylo (Ben Skywalker-Solo) given his family history and lineage actually tinkering with the dark side in order to do the most massive move against the Force ever! In realizing that this conflict between light and dark will go on and on and on and billions upon billions will suffer and die, taking on the burden to get as close to the dark as you can (meaning having to actually go pretty dark in order to convince...and then have it forever dominate your destiny) and end it all would be a massive, taxing undertaking. You couldn't just say, yeah I'm a bad guy but spare this village, let the old man live and ok sure dad I'll come with you right after I complete my dark side training. So his goal might be to do something that would in the long run be better for the galaxy but in the short term he's got to be convincingly dark in order to infiltrate and end it once and for all...requiring massive personal sacrifice: his own happiness, life, family, friends etc.

...but I don't think I'm right, just a theory I toy with to see if it sticks when I watch the film. So far I feel it could but probably won't. Even though that scene where he speaks to "grandfather" is odd. I mean Anakin went back to the light right? Wouldn't he have been told this? So why speak to a helmet and try to get inspiration from this reformed dark lord? Who ended up being someone who "started" to take down the dark side by being close it...though he did not "finish" it, he only took down Palpatine...see what I'm saying?
This actually happens several times in the EU, most notably in the Dark Empire comic series where Luke joins the dark side along with the resurrected emperor in an attempt to destroy it from within. It also happened in the Tales of the Jedi comics, where Ulic Qel-Droma tries to do the same thing.

It is certainly a possibility that Kylo could be doing this. I have wondered the same thing. I can't wait to see episode 8 and see where things are headed, but even if this theory is true, I'm sure we won't know until episode 9.

Bespin-81

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2017, 08:15:27 AM »

I re-watched the scene and based on Han's hand, I don't know if he could have done it.

I do, however, still really like the theory.

3 quick reasons:

1. It allows for a "Star Warsian" twist.  "You killed your father!"  "No.  He killed himself."

2. It makes Han's death more meaningful.  I can see Kylo/Ben not as a good guy in disguise, but someone on the path to the Dark Side.  It was Han's death (not the death of 100s of villagers, Jedis, etc.) that lead Snoke (I believe, if I'm remembering correctly) to believe Kylo was now able to "complete" his training.  If he didn't kill Han, his training will be incomplete and allow for an Anakin style redemption.

3. When (IF) Ren turns on Snoke, he can deliver a ROTJ Luke speech about his father just before he takes Snoke down along with himself -dying a self-sacrificial death just like his dad.   
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 12:27:32 PM by Bespin-81 »
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cash_fan

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2017, 06:09:09 PM »

90 days.

Should be a new trailer dropping soon.  Fingers crosseed. 
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jjreason

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2017, 09:07:48 PM »

Regardless of what happens, I won't accept Kylo as a "good guy". He can redeem himself part of the way, but it will require a character death as far as I'm concerned. Time for the Jedi to end, as it were.
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bob

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2017, 08:41:18 PM »

 i get the feeling Kylo Ren wont end up being mr bad guy entirely. maybe he will save someone good and die in the process or something. kinda like Vader but in a different way.

 the only thing im not into is ''the jedi must end'' i hope that doesnt end up being the cliche thing, yknow, sacrifice everything and that in turn destroys the bad person. its over done and reminds me of the matrix yet that was around long before the matrix did it. its a wise thing to just ''be'' but i dont want to see that again and be reminded of the matrix, which i think is overrated anyway. that would kinda ruin it for me.
 
 maybe Luke will pull that but the younger ones wont. so i guess it wont ruin it entirely. i get the impression luke isnt going to be doing much in this. hes the new Yoda now (oh wait, thats what Maz is :S). he can still carry a lot of depth to the story for sure! but hes not going to be running around or flying x-wings. dont think so.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 08:58:26 PM by bob »
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Eradicator

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2017, 10:39:37 AM »

I predict a new trailer will drop when the new Thor movie comes out.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2017, 08:25:54 PM »

Last of the Jedi - chances of this being true are zero - Disney did not spend 4 billion to just end the Jedi.  :luke:
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Bespin-81

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2017, 09:02:41 PM »

Last of the Jedi - chances of this being true are zero - Disney did not spend 4 billion to just end the Jedi.  :luke:

I think I'll agree on this point. 

This is the same reason I suspect Rey will be a Skywalker.  The name is worth too much to not continue on in future marketing/merchandising.
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sinkie

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2017, 12:05:53 PM »

I'm on the fence. I could see them using the "ending of the Jedi" as fodder for future films where the Jedi are reborn, rediscovered, reimagined. So that the old feels new again maybe?

Subcoolin

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Re: JJ Abrams back for Episode IX
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2017, 05:20:22 PM »

Apparently the new trailer will be out on oct. 9th Monday night football....again...it's a rumour..
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