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February 24, 2018, 09:07:23 AM

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Author Topic: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ  (Read 424 times)

KaleDayspring

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Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« on: January 11, 2018, 03:46:22 PM »

Having seen it now for the second time and still loving it. :P to you who don't.

Here's the thing, I say that DJ was a much greater villain than Kylo. He tells the First Order how to track the shuttles. He's responsible for the deaths of hundreds. And he does it all for money.

My friend says that Kylo is worse because he kills so many at the end and has truly fallen to the dark side

What are your thoughts?

Also Is DJ in 9? Did he die when the Super Super Star Destroyer was hyperspaced?
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jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 06:37:44 PM »

I'm assuming he got out alive. If Star Wars tropes hold true, I expect to see him back to unexpectedly save the day later in the story.
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Subcoolin

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 10:09:42 PM »

I enjoyed TLJ  :)  For me i think Kylo seems to be full on dark side.  I hope the knights of ren make an apperance in the conclusion of the trilogy alongside Ren to really re enforce his darkness....where were they anyways??....  DJ is still mysterious and i agree with JJ he will be back in episode 9 to save the day
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sinkie

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2018, 11:21:28 PM »

I guess if you really think on it you might feel that at least Kylo is doing it for less "base" reasons than money. But I think that my gut says Kylo is potentially more driven to lash out at the world whereas DJ might actually do good things if they paid well. He's not motivated, as far as we can tell, by anything dark or sinister but rather by what he thinks are practical considerations for his own personal gain.

He's not a wonderful human being by any stretch of the imagination however.

I think he could be back of course, perhaps as someone they use to get to the right people to buy new ships from?

jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2018, 11:35:25 PM »

How much better would it have been  if instead of DJ in the cell it was an aging Lando, down on his luck? I truly believe it was written for Lando, but that they couldn't get a deal done with Billy Dee. He says they never tried to contact him but I can't believe that - it sounds very much like a Non-Disclosure Order type of answer.
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napseeker

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 02:29:32 AM »

No, no... we don't want Lando in DJ's role (let's not forget that he betrays the resistance and causes the deaths of 90% of the evacuees).  We've already had enough of our OT heroes get ruined by the ST.

While I was fine with Luke in TLJ, I understand why a lot of fans hate that old Luke is bitter, cynical and dejected... that ruined Luke for those fans. Let's keep Lando and as many other classic characters from that fate.

Also given Billy Dee's health issues, he never would've been able to do the role; far better is to just have him be the master slicer that Finn was trying to contact. A short cameo showing a happy Lando with a lady on each arm, that would've been good enough I think. That's what I think a lot of fans were hoping for (that and a more heroic Holdo-style death for Ackbar)

Lando could've also had a second cameo then at the climax, responding to Leia's plea by indicating he was trying to rally any allies he could but help would never be able to arrive in time (that might've lessened the desperation of the Resistance's situation though...)

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 02:32:38 AM by napseeker »
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jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 06:11:41 PM »

Still having some trouble getting my head around the fact that no one replied. I wonder if they'll address that or if that's truly what happened.
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sinkie

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 10:13:17 PM »

I think no one replied...yet! Now that the spark has lit the fire...I think with more "decisive strikes" by the small group lead by a new Jedi the Rebellion will grow. That's right...rebellion! :)

napseeker

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 12:50:47 AM »

Still having some trouble getting my head around the fact that no one replied. I wonder if they'll address that or if that's truly what happened.

Well it could simply be a galactic equivalent of the famous "Bystander effect":

Quote
The bystander effect, or bystander apathy, is a social psychological phenomenon in which individuals are less likely to offer help to a victim when other people are present. The greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help. Several factors contribute to the bystander effect, including ambiguity, cohesiveness and diffusion of responsibility.

The whole galaxy (or at least those on the outer rim) are bearing witness to what is about to be a violent massacre of a handful of freedom fighters... that's a lot of bystanders and a lot of diffusion of responsibility i.e. "let someone else do it, why risk our necks for a hopeless cause?"
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jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 01:13:06 PM »

I guess I just envisioned Leia having inspired devotion in millions & millions - planets, entire systems possibly - not just a few. Hard to believe that many would stand by & wait for someone else to help.
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cash_fan

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 02:55:40 PM »

I guess I just envisioned Leia having inspired devotion in millions & millions - planets, entire systems possibly - not just a few. Hard to believe that many would stand by & wait for someone else to help.

A lot of the galaxy turned against Leia when they found out she was the daughter of Darth Vader. She was forced out of the the Senate but those closest to her help form the Resistance. 
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jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 03:26:48 PM »

Interesting, thanks for that explanation - I hadn't read that.
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napseeker

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 07:36:35 PM »

That was the big development in the Bloodlines novel... (a spoiler for sure, so perhaps a spoiler warning should've been given regarding this reveal).

And of course, the former Senate loathed Leia enough to want her dead, so she really didn't have a lot of allies that might've intervened other than Lando or ...Fenn Shysa (okay, that's a stretch that one).

See: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/112796/who-is-the-woman-on-a-balcony-in-the-hosnian-system
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jjreason

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 09:14:38 AM »

To me, that's a situation where a line of dialogue ANYWHERE in the film, about a degrading relationship with the former-republic or ANYTHING would have helped that final lack of support seem more plausible. If you didn't read the novel (like I didn't), you're left wondering. Personally, I don't think they're at the point where every fan is well versed in the novels & cartoons.  :speechless-smiley-004:
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bob

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Re: Who was worse - Kylo or DJ
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 06:24:07 PM »


 i thought the novels were never really related to the moves basically uuhhm,,,ever bahaha.. so they actually did add some of that into the story ? i wouldnt be surprised if they werent thinking about that part of it anyway.

 i thought it was just to show the desperation of the situation/no one wants to take on the first order cause they will die so they werent even going to bother trying.

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