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November 14, 2019, 01:22:30 AM

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Author Topic: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...  (Read 613 times)

napseeker

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Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« on: September 26, 2019, 01:18:10 PM »

MCU fans will recognize the name. He's the showrunner who raised the Marvel films to great heights, effectively becoming this generation's "Star Wars" for many, many kids... even as Star Wars itself was being bulldozed into irrelevancy and rehashed plots.

And now Disney finally wised up and are having Feige work on a Star Wars film. Hopefully the first step in him taking it over completely from KK and maybe working closely with Dave Filoni to get us out of this current mess.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/marvels-kevin-feige-will-working-on-a-star-wars-movie-1838467387

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Eradicator

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2019, 10:38:00 AM »

I am a Dave Filoni fan. I think he truly understands what Star Wars is and he is willing to introduce new concepts and not rehashed stories. Hopefully these two people can provide Star Wars with a very bright future.
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Darth Cujo

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2019, 11:42:12 AM »

I like Filoni as well. I'd be curious to see what he could do with something that isn't primarily a kids cartoon. Resistence has been pretty weak but that's probably largely due to what it's meant to be and the subject matter than due to the show runners/producers/writers etc.

It seems he's worked closely enough with George to get the spirit of SW right.
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dangerlinto

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2019, 12:25:21 PM »

I like Filoni as well. I'd be curious to see what he could do with something that isn't primarily a kids cartoon. Resistence has been pretty weak but that's probably largely due to what it's meant to be and the subject matter than due to the show runners/producers/writers etc.

It seems he's worked closely enough with George to get the spirit of SW right.

While there are many Rebels episodes i don't like, overall I loved the series for the ones that really push the narrative forward.  Though it's hard to say from afar, based off interviews and the series itself -Filoni gets it. Sure, there is an episode largely centered around Chopper's leg, but then, Sgt. Pepper's has Within You Without You on it. Even in the greats, some stuff is just filler.  If I could cut the episodes down to what is really essential, it's a series I think more people would treat with respect (in fact, I think I may do this as a fun project when I get the chance)

Feige I love but I hold no hope that he can transition to Star Wars.   The Marvel guidance, really boiled down was: when something serious is happening, make a joke (with the very notable exception of the end of Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - which is why that part is the best part of any of those movies).

Star Wars can't operate like a Marvel format.  I'm sure Feige know this but his success in one Motus Operandi doesn't preclude that he will succeed in another.

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Eradicator

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2019, 03:33:35 PM »

I agree, over a season of 20-24 episodes there is a lot of filler. I find myself drawn to shows now that have 8 episodes in the season. The stories are tight, fast moving and interesting. I do still watch shows like Flash and Supergirl but because they have so many episodes there is a ton of filler and it really grates on me. Even shows like The Walking dead seem a bit too long because they have to throw filler stuff in.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:40:26 PM by Eradicator »
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skywalker1973

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2019, 09:06:34 AM »

.. even as Star Wars itself was being bulldozed into irrelevancy and rehashed plots.

And now Disney finally wised up and are having Feige work on a Star Wars film. Hopefully the first step in him taking it over completely from KK and maybe working closely with Dave Filoni to get us out of this current mess.

Don't agree with the take that Force Awakens,  Rogue One,  Last Jedi and Solo have been a mess that bulldozed Star Wars into irrelevancy. I enjoyed all of those quite a bit and frankly I  thought we'd seen our last Star Wars movie when Ep3 hit the theaters.  Never thought I'd get to see Han, Luke and Leia again.  It's soon to be 2020 and we're  still getting Star Wars movies,  a Mandalorian TV show and a Kenobi  TV show among other things. I'd say George left the ship in good hands. Star Wars fans hating Star Wars has been a weird thing to me ever since Ep1 arrived but I guess it is what it is

As for Kevin Feige, there were some genuinely great MCU movies like Winter Soldier but if a Star Wars movie ever went in the goofy direction like Thor Ragnarok went,  that I could live without.
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napseeker

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2019, 11:36:43 AM »

People are going to have their opinions about the Disney SW films, whether they are good or not, whether they are well-written or well-directed, but make no mistake, this era of SW films are indeed irrelevant.  They don't mean anything to anyone -- other than just nostalgic entertainment at best.

The classic SW films (even the prequels) had more of a purpose beyond just filling George Lucas' bank account with our cash. I've repeatedly said this to other SW fans over the last few years to distinguish what Disney/JJ/KK failed to understand about what made Star Wars, "Star Wars" and it had nothing to do with lightsabers, blasters, bounty hunters, etc.   

The Lucas SW films TAUGHT something to the younger generations that watched them, they had universal themes that dealt with good/evil, technology vs the human spirit, democracy vs dictatorships, the power of love to redeem even the worst people, etc.  That is why we adored them, because they are actual fairy tales in the truest sense (entertainment that is accompanied by valuable moral lessons).

The Disney films, and I say this as someone who adores Rogue One and mostly enjoyed SOLO and even TLJ (I can fast-forward through all the scenes with Finn and Rose), are irrelevant. They are empty calories, they serve little purpose other than to rake in the cash, try to make the SW nerds happy, but for the general populace, these films are forgettable and irrelevant.  There are no life lessons to be gleamed from their stories (although TLJ actually does try to tackle the theme of coping with failure, but arguably does a poor job in its execution).  Non-SW nerds don't give a rat's ass about Star Wars. They have no reason to. The Disney films are disposable and forgettable to them.

There's an excellent article written by Thomas over at JediTempleArchives about how SW means nothing to the kids today, and that is well demonstrated by how much SW merchandise is NOT being bought up by the kids. They are focused on the MCU, by Feige.  Because in the MCU, you have the heroes that classic SW used to offer: Capt America (Luke Skywalker), Tony Stark (Han Solo), Black Widow (Princess Leia), etc.  These are where the inspirational heroes are for today's children. NOT Disney Star Wars.

In working on The Mandalorian, Favreau asked Lucas for advice on how to write true SW stories, and Lucas said exactly what I've been saying for years: the stories are meant to teach the next generation valuable lessons about life. If you can do that, you have a Star Wars story in the most faithful sense.  That is what Disney does not get, that is why their films, even the enjoyable ones, fail.
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brianakarobin

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2019, 01:31:55 PM »

I always try to look on the bright side. I am hopeful that this may spell the start of something great. I haven't hated the new SW movies, other than borderline hating TLJ (and even then, it is not the movie, which I thought was well done, but the way the character of Luke was written that I hate), but I think it could be so much better, and Feige made the MCU great.

To the comments concerned that the tone of the MCU is not the same as the tone of SW, while I largely agree (although I think the OT had great and appropriate comedy), Kevin Feige was the producer and drove the overall story, and was not the director who really sets the tone for the movies. He may have had a hand, for sure, but he more helped establish independent stories and how they fit into the overall story.

napseeker

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2019, 10:22:16 PM »

For anyone who does want to get a sober understanding about the reasons for Star Wars decline (other than what I cited in my last posting), there was a great video posted after the SOLO debacle that talks about:
1) why Star Wars was originally such a cultural phenomenon
2) how other movies have caught up and even surpassed the OT in some areas
3) why the new films don't resonate with new audiences, and especially the now all-important Chinese audiences (hint: they prefer the MCU under Feige)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUvKwmCQ4sk

I should clarify that I'm not even a big MCU fan myself, I only collect a very tiny handful of MCU action figures whereas I still buy far more (mostly OT and PT) toys by comparison. And MCU films are not perfect, some are great (Winter Soldier, Civil War) and some are so-so (Ragnarok, and I personally don't understand the appeal of GotG). 

Still, they feel like they are of a consistent quality overall, and have an overarching direction that they move in, whereas I recall one of the huge complaints of TLJ is the sense that hints and clues were provided in TFA suggesting something grand, that were then inexplicably leading to nowhere and nothing at all (wasting the time of fans who spent valuable mental energy invested in JJ's "mystery box" of empty air).  That would not have happened under Feige. You would not get an Infinity War with Thanos in a gold bathrobe and bedroom slippers  :rollfloorlaffsmiley:

The SW sequels by comparison feel random, rambling, and incoherent. They don't even adhere to the logic of the SW universe (as noted by those who see Holdo's cruiser ramming as a huge, suspension of disbelief-breaking, moment that has people asking: "Yeah, why didn't they just ram 50 droid-piloted X-Wings into the Death Star and blow it up that way?  It would at least cripple the damn thing..."

« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 10:24:07 PM by napseeker »
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jjreason

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2019, 12:55:40 AM »

The Holdo maneuver, though lovely to behold, was clearly borrowed from Japanese anime both in terms of style & execution. I'll just echo the sentiment of a number of different folks I've read since the movie's release & suggest it should have been the Ackbar maneuver.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2019, 11:56:43 AM »

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think people are putting way too much weight on this Feige thing. At best, he'll bring a little more consistency and overall vision to Star Wars (or more likely bring in people to do that for him). But I think that ship has already sailed. At worst (and more likely), it's just Disney slapping his name on it to appease some fans. Either way, it's still Disney in charge. Which to me is not inherently bad, but they have their own philosophies, their own culture, and their own way of doing things. There's a lot of voices at the (board) table that get to have their say, because they are the walking bags of money at the studio and money talks.

Before Disney, the only person that mattered and had both first and final say on EVERYTHING was George Lucas. He had free reign on the first film because no one knew what is was or cared about it, and after that HE was the walking money bag. And he was involved in every little detail of his films, which is how you get a consistent and coherent saga that is the vision of one person. Did he try to maximize the amount of money he got out of them? Absolutely. But at least to him they were films first - vehicles for his art and technological advancement; and then income generators.

Lucas was a product of the era of film makers. Now it is all studio-driven, paint-by-numbers, focus group box ticking. And Feige is a part of that. He was just able to take a wide-view approach to the MCU, stuck with it, and made it work. Don't get me wrong - I appreciate what he's been able to do. But I don't automatically expect that he'll be able to translate that into anything else.

I'm be happy to be proven otherwise though.



And for the record, I loved Thor Ragnarok. It breathed new life into a character that was going nowhere, and kept Chris Hemsworth from hanging up the hammer. People keep knocking the MCU for it's humour, like that's some bad thing. they're movies based on comic books - they're supposed to be FUN. Some are more serious, some more goofy. Just like their comics.

Name one recent DC film that you can say was fun to watch.
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Eradicator

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 02:54:50 PM »

In the end I think if Disney/Feige can actually sit down and plan out what they want to do with the larger story things will be better. I think the consensus is among fans is that Disney came in to making the Sequel Trilogy with little to no story arc set out. They just gave JJ and Rian a movie each and said go. No really cohesive planning and I think that has hurt the box office and related sales. I am hoping Feige and team will plan things out better and move it all in a positive direction.

Moving away from the Skywalker era will probably also help things. A fresh new set of movies/stories away from the Skywalker time period should be easier for Disney to produce, which may result in a better product. At least I hope that is what happens.

I am really looking forward to Obi Wan and the Mandalorian. Who knows maybe EP9 will right the ship so to speak.
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Wedge1021

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2019, 10:20:34 PM »

So this article says pretty much what I was trying to say above, just better:

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-new-star-wars-trilogy-is-worse-than-the-prequels/

The last paragraph in particular hit the nail on the head: "Disney's cautiousness has led to good-but-never-great Star Wars movies. And that's why I will always take the bad dialogue and incredible moments of the prequels over a Star Wars trilogy that has neither."
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jjreason

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 11:17:39 PM »

Eh, there are great moments in Force Awakens (first appearance of the Falcon) & some of the banter is pretty good (Maz), and even Last Jedi was compelling the first time through.

I'm not throwing in the hat on this trilogy yet - it should be defined as a complete entity, the same as the first two have been - and we haven't seen how it resolves. Maybe we'll all be eating crow come Christmas.
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napseeker

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Re: Kevin Feige - you're my last hope...
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2019, 05:19:54 PM »

I've been reading the so-called leaks, and if these are even 50% correct, I doubt any of the critics will reverse themselves on this trilogy.  If anything, some of the developments in the story will only make fans even more angry/bitter/cynical (if that's possible).

I don't think JJAbrams understands Star Wars. The only good thing about TROS is that the people in charge (KK, JJ) know that they've screwed up so badly that they need to get Lucas' involvement again and to heed his advice this time. 

That's not to say that I would want the final movie to suddenly jump into the microverse and explore the Whills or midichlorians, but I am hoping he can at least remind them about what I said above, about how SW is meant to teach and inform, not just entertain.

At any rate, based on the leaks, I'm not optimistic and am continuing to boycott these films. I only pay money for legitimate canon films, and these movies are just bad fan fiction as far as I'm concerned.
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