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December 12, 2019, 08:01:04 PM

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Author Topic: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!  (Read 576 times)

Wedge1021

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"Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:01:17 PM »

So I've been reluctant to pile on Kathleen Kennedy like some people have done, but this comment has me dumbfounded.
I have so many disagreements with it from so many angles, I don't know where to start:

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/making-a-star-wars-film-is-difficult-due-to-a-lack-of-comics-and-novels-says-lucasfilm-president-a171739

How can people be this stupid?

1) First, they threw all that material in the garbage on day 1. But even so, there's no reason they couldn't use parts of it as inspiration or starting points. Cherry pick the good stuff, and build on it.

2) How is "lack of source material" even an acceptable excuse, regardless of the property? Isn't that what writers are paid to do? So she is admitting that everyone at Lucasfilm is now incapable of having an original thought?
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ambasah

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 03:15:36 PM »

she is the inspiration for jar-jar. that is the only explanation.
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napseeker

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 05:39:07 PM »

Considering how exceptionally desperate Disney is to get people to show up for TROS, she should've banned herself from doing any interviews.  She only continues to demonstrate how little she understands of Star Wars and the fanbase whenever she speaks out.

The combination of KK (a non-Star Wars fan who clearly didn't learn much from her mentor, George Lucas) and JJ (a hack writer with few original ideas, and what few he has seem to fall into the category of "mystery box" and "just make it bigger") has been death for this franchise.

Just boycott this movie and do what Mark Hamill says: watch it on cable TV later.


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jjreason

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 10:43:13 PM »

I'm not a rabid KK hater, but if this is how she feels maybe it's time to let a good idea man (and by that I mean a guy who has TONS of them, some great & some less great) like Dave Filoni move up a rung on the ladder.
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Darth Cujo

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 11:28:53 PM »

Not to mention Ol George provided them with story treatments for the sequel trilogy, which they apparently tossed out the window as well.

Such an odd comment to make. I can't help but wonder if it was in a different context. Either that or she's just completely out to lunch...  :confused0024:
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jjreason

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 06:53:14 AM »

I'm guessing they chose to go a different route from George's ideas because using them would have meant he was owed a percentage of the returns. He's no dummy. It's also impossible to know how they would have turned out in someone else's hands. Imagine awkward George trying to explain to someone else how to manage the Revenge of the Midichlorians.....  :speechless-smiley-004:
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 06:55:27 AM by jjreason »
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napseeker

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 02:05:43 PM »

In this case, I don't even know that it was a money issue... Disney would be paying someone (in this JJ and Kasdan) royalties for the script no matter what, it doesn't stand to reason that George would've gotten a cut but not likely anything more outrageous than JarJar or Kasdan.

Really his anger is at how shoddily his creations were treated in TFA. I suspect that Han Solo was a fictional stand-in for his real-life older brother (just because I recall that Lucas once mentioning how his brother referred to him as "kid" in the same way Han referred to Luke as "kid"). 

So to see JJ devise a scene where Han/his brother is gutted like a piece of meat (after reverting him back to a deadbeat, senile old smuggler) would've been devastating to Lucas.

I also don't necessarily believe that Lucas refused to kill off Han in RotJ solely because a dead Han wouldn't sell action figures versus a still-alive Han; killing off Han would've been like symbolically killing off his brother and anyone who is a writer can attest that you put a lot of personal aspects of yourself into your creations, including aspects of people that you know from real life, and Lucas is sentimental enough that he would not have wanted to kill him even in an imaginary story.

People who talk about Han or Luke as just characters (JJ, Rian) and how you do what's necessary for the "story" do not understand the huge emotional connection an artist has to his creations (they are effectively like his children) and the huge pain felt when they are completely botched and mishandled.

While I really didn't want to see a Lucas-penned trilogy about microbes/Whills, at least it wouldn't have featured "woke" Whills or cobbled-together plot from 6 to 8 different test screenings.
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Hellboy

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2019, 05:22:47 PM »

Yeah, a sorry excuse for not knowing anything about the material you are in charge of.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2019, 06:45:16 PM »

Are there indicators that the last movie isn't good?  I personally have not liked either 1 or 2, I really liked Rogue One and didn't hate Han Solo - but pretty hard to fill Harrison Ford shoes.    I have been really hoping that the final movie would be great but I have to be honest I don't really care about any of the characters.  The only scene I am really excited about are the ones with the original cast.  But I am sure those scene will disappoint just like in previous movies.  I really wished George Lucas had written all of the movies and then JJ had pumped them up. 
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napseeker

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2019, 11:32:01 PM »

Are there indicators that the last movie isn't good?  I personally have not liked either 1 or 2, I really liked Rogue One and didn't hate Han Solo - but pretty hard to fill Harrison Ford shoes. 

I'm assuming you don't want to know any of the leaked info about TROS so I will keep this as non-spoilery as possible.  One recent rumor is that Disney has had several test screenings to gauge the response from both SW fans and regular people (non-hardcore SW fans) and make changes.  The script written by JJ was intended to be modular so that they could try out different endings for the film, to see what worked with audiences best. Obviously they NEED this film to be a hit after the last 2 films.

The first version of TROS is pure JJ and Kathleen Kennedy. They showed it to Bob Iger, warning him that they don't expect it will make all SW fans happy (which, right there is a bad sign). Test audiences did not respond well to this version.  Audiences rated the movie based on the 3 acts that make up the entire film. 1st act that scored 65, 2nd act that scored a 12, a 3rd act that scored a 4 (alienating EVERY single SW fan)

Bog Iger flipped his lid and ordered changes, and this led to what is referred to as the "Iger cut" which did score better: 65.

They then went to solicit help from George Lucas, asking him for advice about how to improve the 3rd act. He gave them a very drastically different ending that introduces a new character out of nowhere, and this scored the highest out of all: 88 (out of 100 presumably).

That does NOT mean that they are going with the Lucas cut however. The latest rumor is that Disney has frankensteined a film that has a bit out of all 3 versions, probably in an attempt to please everyone involved in the production (making no one totally happy).  So yes, this is storytelling by committee at its finest.

Another rumor also noted that a pre-Iger cut shown to test audiences had enough of them so angry that almost half of them walked out before the movie was done and verbally cursing the movie as they left. The scene in question that inspired this walkout is not something I'm going to describe but if it really did exist, if they actually went to the trouble/expense to film it, it would completely show how deaf Disney is to what fans want.  It would probably have almost all the snowtroopers on this forum walk out of the theatre too, if not outright scream a few choice curse words at Disney because yes, it would be THAT bad.

So things don't look good right now. I would at least not see it on opening day, and just wait for word of mouth.  The film opens overseas 1 week before it opens here in North America, so you will definitely be hearing many opinions, good or bad.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2019, 08:25:10 AM »

Thanks napseeker for your response and for keeping it spoiler free.  From what I have been able to find on the internet, every other Star Wars movie was released first in the USA.  This is the first release that is first being released in places like Canada, Germany, France - a day before the US. You had said 1 week before - what I found showed 1 day before - either way it seems odd that they would do this.  I assume they are doing it for marketing reasons and want to use positive press from these countries to promote the US market with fantastic rotten tomatoes and fan reviews to pump the advertisements in the USA - in an effort to make the domestic revenue as high as possible.  I still find it amazing that the writer/creator of Star Wars and Indiana Jones and American Graffiti is ignored by Disney. Good on him if his version scored an 88.  And I am sure if he wrote it from the ground up the score would have been even hirer.
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jjreason

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2019, 09:06:04 AM »

This is why the internet is a dangerous place. So many articles published based on hearsay information (which may be true of course) that create "pre-opinions" in folks. If the pre-opinion is negative, the movie already has a steep hill to climb to even be viewed as "ok". With Star Wars, this shouldn't be a difficult challenge to meet.... but we've all seen/read & had our own reactions to the Disney era movies.

I desperately wanted to go into this movie with no bias either way - like I was able to do with Revenge of the Sith, which I wound up enjoying as a result - but I don't think that's possible these days. I've already formed my "pre-opinion". And that kinda sucks.  :shakehead:
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Darth Cujo

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2019, 09:27:26 AM »

I find that whole process a bit disturbing. Regardless of how the movie turns out, to be making a movie so it's modular and editable based on test audience screenings is just not how a star wars movie should be made. That's a different kind of film. Movies are always collaborative, but the originals are based on George's vision, and the story should play out that way. I get it Disney took over, but leaving it to audience testing...  :crazy:

And I know George also let the winds of public opinion shape things (Boba Fett, for example), but he also was stubborn about keeping some things to his own.

I'm not saying George's version of the sequel trilogy would have been inherently great just because it was his, but at least it would have been the story that was meant to be told. Not some market based version of star wars.

I take all this info with a huge grain of salt anyway. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing it, for better or worse. And in the meantime I'm really enjoying the Mandalorian. Episode 3 was great. 
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2019, 11:01:13 AM »

Great comments Darth Cujo regarding the OP.

And in the meantime I'm really enjoying the Mandalorian. Episode 3 was great.

Yes in Episode 4 , you find out that Boba Fett is actually Princess Aurora's son.   :party0007:
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napseeker

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Re: "Lack of source material to make SW films from"?!?!
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2019, 03:03:42 PM »

You had said 1 week before - what I found showed 1 day before - either way it seems odd that they would do this.

Just to clarify, the 1 week earlier I was referring to is Japan (at least this is what I recall from one of the online folks who said that TROS would come out overseas a week before N. America).  I looked up release dates for the movie on imdb and the various dates fluctuates from Dec 18th to Dec 20th, but there was no entry for Japan... so it's possible that this guy is right or wrong).

Even though I don't like the idea of a modular script either, since it implies that they have no vision at all for the story they want to tell (I mean, that's kind of obvious after TLJ anyway), I think at this point Disney is in damage control mode. They WANT to make the traditional SW fans happy - they're not going to take the chance of another TLJ happening. So the supposed idea is to deliberately leak out different plot ideas and climaxes that they are considering and may have even already filmed and then measure if fans are happy with what they are hearing.

The script is modular in that they can edit in whichever version of the leaked scene the fans seem to be responding positively to, and without disrupting the overall direction of the film. Obviously certain things have to happen no matter what e.g. the climax must include a confrontation between Rey, maybe alongside Kylo or ghost Luke or ghost Leia or Lando or Salicious Crumb, etc. versus the Emperor.  It's just a question of HOW they beat the Emperor - does Rey just waltz over by herself and kick Palpatine's ass with no effort?  Does she get her ass kicked initially and then all her allies show up and help her kick his ass?  Or does Kylo surprisingly win the day and redeem himself by saving Rey and beating old Palpy?  Whichever scene fans are saying "YES!  I hope this leak is true!!!" is going to make it into the final cut most likely.

That first cut based on pure JJ and KK's involvement, which supposedly scored a 4/100 seems to have Rey singlehandedly not only beat Palpatine but totally and utterly humiliate him in a comical way. And without much effort.  So it's a great thing that they at least tested the scene, realized just how much nobody wants to see one of the greatest villains in film history just casually defeated by a barely-trained Jedi... that's what the modularity is there for.  So they can hopefully swap that out for something more believable, which would at least have fans ROOT for Rey to win.

JR: I don't disagree at all with folks who want to go into a movie "pure" and having no formed opinion. Personally, after TFA, I have no trust or faith in Disney or JJ or KK, so even if I wanted to go see any sequel movie in the theatres, I would already have a huge negatively formed opinion regardless of reading the leaks or not.  It's knowing WHO the people working on SW currently that have created that opinion, not any of the story leaks or rumors.  They are not competent storytellers.

Audiences should give any filmmaker a chance to win them over - but not blindly so, not if they start to show a track record of bungling and fumbling or laziness. Then IMO, you have to start doing more research (looking at leaks, listening to what the director and producers say in their interviews) to gauge if this is the type of person you want to hand over your hard-earned dollars to. 

The leaks about Terminator Dark Fate spared me from seeing it, even though I badly wanted to see Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor again. But the producers/director did something to one of the major Terminator characters that I (and most fans) found unforgiveable, and knowing this in advance, everyone stayed away. The movie bombed spectacularily and the planned trilogy is now dead. Good. Everyone sent the director a strong message: if you think killing off this character meant nothing to the loyal fans, and that you can casually replace him with a younger/gender-swapped character and re-tell the same exact story all over again - then eff you.  Watch your movie bomb and no one buy the blurays. 

I went into TFA blind, didn't know anything other than the trailers. But if I'd known Han was going to be gutted like a piece of meat, that Han and Leia's marriage didn't last, that Han would revert back to a deadbeat, crappy smuggler, that the New Republic would be wiped out in 10 seconds, that it was going to be just the rebels vs empire all over again, that Luke's new jedi order was a failure, that the droids would barely make an appearance, that nothing about the movie at all would feel like Star Wars.... I'd have stayed home.  I NEVER would've given Disney or JJ a penny of my money.  That's why I read the leaks now. Nobody should automatically trust anything that comes out of Disney any more unless the names Filoni, Favreau, or Feige are involved.
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