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Author Topic: The Rise of Skywalker (BEWARE - SPOILERS)  (Read 2389 times)

Cmdr Bacara

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2019, 10:06:53 PM »

Just got back from seeing it.  Definitely better than TLJ but it does leave some things open and I'm not sure where I would rank it yet amongst the other movies.  Rey's lineage was ok with me, but will be a sore spot for others I suspect.
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jjreason

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2019, 10:35:49 PM »

After one viewing, for me it felt like way too much, way too fast over the first half of the film - I'm sure the  :sign0065: look on my face would have been comical to see. I did really like a few elements, but overall it was a miss for me I'm sad to say.
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Wedge1021

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2019, 11:37:32 PM »

After one viewing, for me it felt like way too much, way too fast over the first half of the film

I felt the same - and I think that was partly due to having to "catch up" the plot in the wake of the derailment that was TLJ. It really picked up for me around the end of the DS2 wreckage scenes. From there on it felt like a different movie. Almost like they crammed 2 movies in one - and maybe they did? The first half was what Ep8 SHOULD have been, just more drawn out with some moments to breathe added in. Then make this film an expansion of the 2nd half. Rian Johnson really screwed this trilogy up.

Anyways, I went into it with low expectations, hoping for at least a satisfying conclusion that would negate the garbage that was TLJ. And I came out feeling pleasantly surprised. Was it perfect? No, but it had a lot to clean up and only so much time to do it. As I noted, the first half was a bit of a mess, but the 2nd half saved it for me. For the first time in this entire trilogy, I actually began to feel for the characters, like I knew who they were, and that they acted pretty consistently with their characterizations. Nothing was too far out there, no wackiness, and the humour was toned down compared to the previous 2 films - it felt a little more natural rather than taking me right out of the film.

There's a good number of things that didn't sit well with me, but that I can live with knowing this still isn't "real" Star Wars to me - but I can see how it could be one day for me. I can live with the things I'd prefer to change, because overall I think it's done a fairly good job at closing things off and a lot of the ending is how I'd have wanted it to happen.

I'd say it's easily my favourite of the Sequel Trilogy, and is likely to remain that way, ahead of Ep7 and Ep8 (in that order). It might even edge itself up out of the bottom 3 for me... possibly ahead of, or at least equal with, Eps 1 & 2.

Now to get back to the wait for The Mandalorian season finale!


EDIT:

I just went back and read through this thread for the first time, as I'd avoided ALL spoilers and speculation about the film so far. I think that doing so really helped me to watch the movie with a little more of a "clean slate" - not having all of these preconceptions and negativity clouding my mind. For those who have already written the film off and are thinking of skipping it, I'd encourage you to give it a try and go in with an open mind. I'd say definitely erase as much of TLJ from your mind as possible, and maybe think of it as a "possible" ending to the Saga - something like an Infinities story.

I have to say I liked it better than I ever expected. I let myself get caught up in it, and found it to be fairly enjoyable.

I thought TFA was a childish remake of Ep4, and I hated TLJ. I love Rogue One, and was surprised at how much I liked Solo as well. This one falls somewhere between all those for me.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 11:55:48 PM by Wedge1021 »
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jjreason

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2019, 05:48:25 AM »

I'm seeing an early trend - those who absolutely hated LJ are ok with this, and those who didn't hate LJ did not like the new one. Interesting.... I'll be watching to see if that continues to be the case as more opinions come in.
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brianakarobin

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2019, 05:51:26 AM »

I agree with Wedge. Critics are garbage - donít listen to anything they say. Heck, most Star Wars fans are garbage now and couldnít give a decent review of a Star Wars movie if they tried because they are so clouded with bitterness that they wouldnít know a good Star Wats movie if it blasted them in the face.

My kids loved this movie. I didnít love every part of it, but I enjoyed it and there were definitely moments where I felt I was really watching a true Star Wars movie, which I never felt in episode 8.

I saw no spoilers going in and I disagree with the comments that you could skip 85% of the movie. There would definitely be things you donít get if you did. As above, some of the first half was rushed, but Iím ok with that.

I think it is my favourite of the sequels, but wonít judge fully until a few more viewings.

jmac

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2019, 10:59:17 AM »

I saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it! The first two movies in the series I left with mixed feelings, but not this one. Now Iím ready for Hasbro to reveal some new Vintage Collection figures!
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Wedge1021

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2019, 11:03:45 AM »

Critics are garbage - donít listen to anything they say. Heck, most Star Wars fans are garbage now and couldnít give a decent review of a Star Wars movie if they tried because they are so clouded with bitterness that they wouldnít know a good Star Wats movie if it blasted them in the face.

You know, it's funny - I went over to JTA to read what that den of negativity had to say about the film. I was quite surprised at Paul's review, it seems he felt pretty much the same as I do. But then jumping down to the "main" spoiler article (started by Thomas), 90% of the comments were people dumping on it, many of whom hadn't even seen the film yet. It's obvious that these people had already made up their minds that they were going to hate the movie, and nothing was going to change that.

And the arguments they were making seemed completely ridiculous to me; complaints that could easily be made against every single SW film since 1977. If A New Hope was released for the first time today, I'm sure it would get completely trashed. Some people treat Star Wars like it's some masterpiece - guys, it's NOT. There's just as much bad acting, cheesy lines, plot holes, retconning, and leaps of logic in the OT and PT as there is in the ST. That was the whole POINT of the original movie - to emulate the pulpy Saturday morning serials that Lucas watched as a kid. Some people take these movies way too seriously - and this coming from a guy who has spent tens of thousands on Star Wars TOYS over the years.

Do I wish the story of this trilogy had gone differently? Absolutely. I'd like to have seen what George Lucas would have done with it. Maybe it would have been worse, but at least we'd know for sure that it was the true, official story from the Maker himself.

I guess I'm just glad it's all over now. I feel like we can get back to a happier time now with Star Wars, depending on where Disney goes with the property from here. I know for me, the best moments of fandom were the periods between trilogies. The Dark Horse / Bantam / LucasArts expanded universe of the 90s really pulled me into the franchise, while the Golden Age of Action Figures from 2006-2012 sucked me in to the addictive world of plastic crack. I'm looking forward to what the next period brings us - maybe the Golden Age of Star Wars Television?
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DarthDerek

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2019, 12:24:17 PM »

After one viewing, for me it felt like way too much, way too fast over the first half of the film - I'm sure the  :sign0065: look on my face would have been comical to see. I did really like a few elements, but overall it was a miss for me I'm sad to say.
I totally agree with you JJ.  I felt like there was just a lot of ďAction movie noiseĒ in the first half of the movie.

PizzatheHutt

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2019, 01:37:18 PM »

Well I watched it,  was not great or bad kinda in the middle will give it a 5/10.   If you consider it none canon than it is allot better, for me the SW saga is Lucas vision Ep 1-6.   Disney 7-9 are Legends,   I wish Favreau would've done Lucas treatments for 7-9 instead since Mando actually has the feel of SW something this trilogy has been lacking big time.
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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2019, 02:07:46 PM »

1st thing, I loved it.  2nd thing, I just want to mention one scene without spoiling it.  But after thinking about it I think I'll wait before I mention it, I will say it was the only scene that made me tear up.  It was about replaying something over in your mind and making a different decision. 

I watched every movie this week going into this.  The Last Jedi is still my least favorite.  But I was surprised that I felt that The Force Awakens had gotten better.  If I had to make a knee jerk reaction right now I would place this one above the other 2 sequals, and above TPM & AOTC.  Will definitely go see it at least 2 more times but I already know it has enough in there that I will enjoy watching it multiple times. 
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napseeker

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2019, 03:25:08 PM »

Critics are garbage - donít listen to anything they say. Heck, most Star Wars fans are garbage now and couldnít give a decent review of a Star Wars movie if they tried because they are so clouded with bitterness that they wouldnít know a good Star Wats movie if it blasted them in the face.

First, let me say that not all critics are garbage. Unfortunately, a number of them are now in the pockets of the studios like Disney (because their livelihoods are very dependent on getting early access to these films and thus, if they bad mouth a major film they will definitely be blacklisted for future outings).  So critics aren't entirely trustworthy any more because they are suffering from major conflict of interest. On the flip side, they also have to maintain their own brand and reputation, so if they truly feel a movie is bad and recognize that if they shower a clearly bad movie with praise, they will be called out for it by their followers.  It's very much a "caught between a rock and a hard place" situation where they can't be totally truthful to anyone.

Secondly. those fans are bitter for good reason: the sequels are trash. Lucas has always managed to do a great job walking a fine line between being an artist and being a businessman. All 6 films, as I've noted before, always had a theme, an underlying message that spoke to the younger generation be that a warning about not judging a book by its cover, or that the human spirit will always triumph over technology, etc.  The sequels are soulless cash grabs and I think even people who have enjoyed these sequel films will agree that you REALLY have to turn your brain off to enjoy them. The movies don't give you much meat to chew on, in the form of relevant themes or lessons about life, but instead rely on side-quest action, the infamous mystery boxes ("mystery" is no substitute for theme), and "will Kylo and Rey get together" schtick (which to be fair, the OT had its Luke-Han-Leia love triangle too).

If you want to count bitter fans, you may as well toss in Lucas and Mark Hamill into that mix too. Lucas because all of his important ideas, be they good or not - I'm still a bit wonky about a trilogy that reveals that human beings are being driven around like cars by microscopic lifeforms - and even his input is just ignored. Hamill, obviously because Luke is so totally wasted here, and not even given a true opportunity to act as a proper "Old Ben" to Rey, that he's basically become his TLJ character.

People (fans) get angry when they feel powerless to see something that they dearly love, become prostituted out for cash. And that's what's happened here. If anyone disagrees with this, give a solid reason why you feel that these sequel movies EVER had to exist, when all they did was rehash the exact same struggle of the OT, just with more politically correct but poorly-executed younger characters versus a laughably incompetent and grossly overpowered Empire 2.0.  There is NO good reason for these movies to have been made, other than to generate cash for Disney and Bad Robot. That is why they are angry. These movies SUCK. It doesn't matter if they entertain because you can get that from other lesser film franchises. There is a quality to the true Star Wars films that encompasses more than just shlock entertainment, they are a modern mythology for the hardcore fans.  So the bitterness exists for a good reason - namely the anger over a wasted once-in-a-lifetime chance to see Luke-Han-Leia again as mentors and advisors in some new, grand adventure defending the New Republic.

And the arguments they were making seemed completely ridiculous to me; complaints that could easily be made against every single SW film since 1977. If A New Hope was released for the first time today, I'm sure it would get completely trashed. Some people treat Star Wars like it's some masterpiece - guys, it's NOT. There's just as much bad acting, cheesy lines, plot holes, retconning, and leaps of logic in the OT and PT as there is in the ST.

I think the point isn't that SW was ever a masterpiece, but that it resonated with audiences back in the day. It's worth pointing out that we don't go to see movies for the plot, we go to see them for the CHARACTERS, and both the OT and prequels had their share of very popular characters. As an amateur writer myself, I can tell you that it is extremely, extremely difficult to create characters that resonate with an audience, especially an audience that ranges in the tens (hundreds?) of millions.  When you read the negative talkback, you may notice that what angers these people are what is being done to the characters, their favorite characters. The sequels have done a huge disservice to the beloved characters (except maybe Leia, but for sure Han and Luke, and very little for R2D2 or C3PO except maybe briefly in this final film). Meanwhile the newer replacement heroes have not resonated with the audience, other than maybe Kylo Ren and Rey.

The complaints are thus two-fold: "You've demolished characters I've admired/worshipped for decades" (turning Luke into a would-be murderer, or Han back into a dopey smuggler who has run out on his wife and kid) and "These new characters are: MarySues / man-babies / cowardly / one-dimensional"

The old OT characters have always felt like real people to us, which is why we can relate to them, even if they're speaking cheesy dialogue. The new characters are poorly written, and are far from relatable.  Think about RedLetterMedia's litmus test for whether a character is well-written or poorly written (he said, if you can describe them in terms other than superficial qualities like their appearance, gender or job).  Han Solo is a scoundrel with a heart of gold who evolves from a loner to embrace a noble cause, Luke is an idealistic naive farmboy who yearned to become a Jedi.  Poe is an excellent fighter pilot... Finn is a somewhat cowardly former Stormtrooper, Rey is a scavenger who wants to find her parents and is unbeatable at everything she tries to do.

The biggest problem with the sequel films isn't bad dialogue or plotting, it's that the main characters that we the audience are expected to rally for, have weak motivations and simplistic characterizations bordering on two-dimensional personalities. They all have good starting points, but then eps8 and 9 do little to evolve them from those starting points; Finn seems to literally repeat the same arc in TLJ that he had in TFA. Rey just starts off powerful in TFA and goes on to become even more powerful in eps9. We are NEVER fearful that she won't get what she wants or won't beat any foe that she comes across.  Poe is... still Poe.  Kylo gets the most growth, starting from a bad place, getting even more evil in TLJ, and then presumably getting redemption in TROS. At least that's an arc of some kind.

But that's the key difference between the sequels and the OT: characterization. The sequels are an absolute mess when it comes to that. That's why they are very bad Star Wars movies while the OT is not.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2019, 06:21:51 PM »

 Just saw it .  I agree with napseeker .  I think it is the best movie out of the 3 Disney triology arc.   But it had the most ties to the OT .  Still wish George had written these 3 movies and Disney just worked on improving the dialogue .  They would of been very satisfying for the OT generation. Definitely cash grab .  But in the end, my showing was easily half empty. So the audience will vote with their wallets this Christmas.  Still will hit $ 1 billion - biggest movie of all time no -  and that should be the yard stick of success because had Peter Jackson directed the 3 movies and George and him written them - the triology would have been the biggest of all time . 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 06:31:59 PM by Canadian Jedi »
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cash_fan

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2019, 02:40:41 AM »

I agree with Wedge. Critics are garbage - donít listen to anything they say. Heck, most Star Wars fans are garbage now and couldnít give a decent review of a Star Wars movie if they tried because they are so clouded with bitterness that they wouldnít know a good Star Wats movie if it blasted them in the face.

Agree with you.  It was the same thing during the prequel era, all the "true" star wars fans were complaining and all the critical reviews were mixed, even scoring worse than the reviews for the sequels. 

First, let me say that not all critics are garbage. Unfortunately, a number of them are now in the pockets of the studios like Disney (because their livelihoods are very dependent on getting early access to these films and thus, if they bad mouth a major film they will definitely be blacklisted for future outings).  So critics aren't entirely trustworthy any more because they are suffering from major conflict of interest. On the flip side, they also have to maintain their own brand and reputation, so if they truly feel a movie is bad and recognize that if they shower a clearly bad movie with praise, they will be called out for it by their followers.  It's very much a "caught between a rock and a hard place" situation where they can't be totally truthful to anyone.

It's all just noise.  I don't care about what critics may or may not think, don't care about any internet rumor and I certainly don't care that everyone on the internet thinks they know everything that goes on - leaks etc.  It's just noise and I try to stay above the noise.  I'm only here to be entertained, and at the end of the day I am or I'm not and I move on.  The movies still bring me joy, and I'm still happy with how they get fleshed out in the comics, and books, and shows, and video games.  I'm not going to get sucked down that hole where all I do is complain about things.  I'd rather spend my time doing something I enjoy. 

Lets hurry up and get the spoiler embargo removed so we can dive into it. 
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jjreason

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2019, 04:20:57 AM »

My plan was to give it the weekend & let people have a chance. I'll take it down tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon closer to dinner I think.
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Canadian Jedi

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Re: The Rise of Skywalker (PLEASE NO SPOILERS FOR A LITTLE WHILE LONGER!!!)
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2019, 06:42:12 AM »

jjreason before we have the Star Wars meal on Sunday can I serve an appetizer today ?

Positives:

We have an ending to the Saga - not as well done as Return of the Jedi - the redone version - but I think that has a lot to do with nap seekers comments. We just don't care about these characters as much as we did the OT ones. Character development or lack of understanding or caring about how to treat the original characters is at the core of why I do not love the Disney series.  And I should add to my comments - I like the prequels and I like Jar Jar - there I said it - I like Jar Jar, I like Jar Jar. I also would of liked to see the Happy Ending - Girl gets Guy, Guy gets Girl and other Guy gets Girl - it was all there, easy to do.

Princess Leia - they saved and used the footage they had.  Part of the problem - the choppiness at the beginning that if you are an adult it could not be missed was the need to make the movie play out around the footage they had of her.  ie we have her saying and doing this from The Force Awaken's - let's write a scene around this.

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